Garmin Vectors and torque wrenches etc

daniel_b

Afternoon all,

considering a pair of these, but just need to get my head around how to fit them.

I have a ratchet torque wrench in the style of this:


BUT it only goes up to 24nm/17.70lb.ft, so not sufficient for the Vectors.

Am I best one that covers that range, or go for a 'beam style' wrench such as this:


I have already found on another thread the required crow foot adaptor:

JackPozzi

Just make sure it clicks out in both directions if you for the clicky type rather than the beam type. A lot will only click out at the correct torque for doing up, obviously with pedals you've got the left hand thread so need both.

thegreatdivide

Get one of the big 3/8 ones from B&Q. If you're going Vector and not Vector S you 'should' get the crow foot in the box. I bought the Park one just to make sure there were no fuxk ups.

sungod

op, bear in mind a crow foot effectively increases torque...

When you put an extension on a torque wrench (e.g. a crow foot or a dog bone) the torque applied to the fastener increases as the lever arm extends. The calculator will work out what value you should set into the wrench to achieve the required fastener torque.

The following formula has been used:

M1 = M2 x L1 / L2
Where:

M1 is the torque setting of the wrench.
M2 is the actual torque applied to the nut
L1 is the normal length of the wrench
L2 is the extended length of the wrench

JackPozzi wrote:

Just make sure it clicks out in both directions if you for the clicky type rather than the beam type. A lot will only click out at the correct torque for doing up, obviously with pedals you've got the left hand thread so need both.

as the crowfoot allows use from either side you simply rotate torque wrench 180 degrees about its long axis

JackPozzi

sungod wrote:

op, bear in mind a crow foot effectively increases torque...

When you put an extension on a torque wrench (e.g. a crow foot or a dog bone) the torque applied to the fastener increases as the lever arm extends. The calculator will work out what value you should set into the wrench to achieve the required fastener torque.

The following formula has been used:

M1 = M2 x L1 / L2
Where:

M1 is the torque setting of the wrench.
M2 is the actual torque applied to the nut
L1 is the normal length of the wrench
L2 is the extended length of the wrench

JackPozzi wrote:

Just make sure it clicks out in both directions if you for the clicky type rather than the beam type. A lot will only click out at the correct torque for doing up, obviously with pedals you've got the left hand thread so need both.

as the crowfoot allows use from either side you simply rotate torque wrench 180 degrees about its long axis

Good point! Mine is a heath robinson affair involving a socket welded to a spanner so there wouldn't be a lot of room to manoeuvre, keep forgetting that a proper crow foot is pretty much flat....

Regarding the length issue, having the crow foot at 90 degrees to the wrench pretty much solves that, might be a very slight difference but would be marginal

meanredspider

JackPozzi wrote:

Just make sure it clicks out in both directions if you for the clicky type rather than the beam type. A lot will only click out at the correct torque for doing up, obviously with pedals you've got the left hand thread so need both.

Most don't click in both directions - instead you change the side of the wrench that the drive pokes out - normally either it pushes through or it's a mushroom head that you pull out and then push in from the other side.

mfin

Wait for the Powertap P1 pedals? No pods, look better for it. New Garmin Vector V2 have black pods.

jgsi

I gave up using any torque wrench on my Vectors a fair while back... just too bloody awkward with a crowfoot etc etc and yes my 8-60Nm wrench only goes 1 way anyways.
Its still good for doing up my BB30 though, so not a waste of dosh.

I go by feel .. doing up the pedal is good old tug (pardon the French) and a bit...and (well probably kiss of death) my Vector has been giving consistent data for nearly 3 months now without ever touching it... I dont have to even calibrate to zero 99% of the time.. but do it just for the hell of it after angle setting.
Oh yes I just use the meaty Lezyne pedal wrench with accomodating bottle opener on it.

daniel_b

mfin wrote:

Wait for the Powertap P1 pedals? No pods, look better for it. New Garmin Vector V2 have black pods.

Didn't realise these were coming out I have to be honest, have idily wanted some kind of power reading for a while, and then someone posted about the Vector 2S on Rose for £450 ish, and then I spotted the pair on there for £780ish, which is what I have currently gone for.

Read the review of the powertaps, and aside from the shorter battery life and the proprietary cleats as opposed to Look ones, it did seem to be positive, and certainly made me consider the options.

I will be wanting to use mine on 3 or 4 bikes, so the P1 would seem to make more sense, but the vectors still get excellent reviews overall.

I notice with interest on an official Garmin installation video that although they still recommend a torque meter, they give advice on how hard to fit it if you are not using one - I paraphrase, but he basically says that if you undertighten it will misread, but if you overtighten beyond the recommendation, it will do no harm.

cycleclinic

I fitted mine with a pedal spanner. Its a pedal just nip them up tight at your at 40 nm i also know what 40 nm on clean threads feels like. You can over complicate things you know. The pedals will self tighten as you pedal anyway so you only need to get it in the ball park. Those power tap pedals sound pretty rubbish with the short battery life. Vectors are more useful.

mfin

The powertap ones are supposed to be out soon according to ordering here....http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-p1-pedal-3200-p.asp?gclid=CMvI9rqtxMUCFSEOwwodoRcADQ

Battery life is 60 hours but are regular AAA batteries, hardly a chore to change either every 1000 miles or something. Supposedly they've been in development for a long while too. They might be good. DC Rainmaker didn't identify any negatives yet.

(Pedals don't self tighten to those kind of torques, that's rubbish. They are threaded that way so if they are loose they don't continue to undo, pedalling won't tighten them).

Supposedly they can use keo cleats although there is a minor difference. They have been tested with them. What might end up being true once real world adoption happens is the powertap cleats might work well on keo pedals though, in which case unless priced daftly, if you have other bikes to jump on with keo pedals it could work out fine. But, it's not clear if any of this is a problem yet.

The other pedal system Xpedo Thrust E (insert standard comments and jokes) is coming too, they might be more like £750 - £800 but they have been promised for a long time and still haven't appeared. Plus, they're a new player in the power market whereas Powertap at least have a good track record with their hubs.

cycleclinic

Well explain how pedal fitted nipped up are tighter then after a good number of miles. They do self tighten a bit. the very act of pedalling has to cause them to tighten or they would unscrew. Nipping them up tight is all the vectors need as nipping them up tight is approximately 40Nm.

1000 miles for me is a month riding (sometimes 5 weeks changing batteries every month is a chore and add a bit of expense.

curium

I had expected Shimano to be in the game by now.

sloppyschleckonds

How much cheaper are these than a proper power measuring system?

stueys

Had vector for over a year, it's great if you need to swap between multiple bikes. I would wait a few weeks for vector 2 though, the upgrade looks good. Apparently it's on the shelf in 5-8 weeks.

Re the torque wrench I use one every time, I don't think you really need it as it's just a firm tighten. But for the sake of 30 quid it's probably worth buying to make absolutely sure the readings are accurate.

daniel_b

Stueys wrote:

Re the torque wrench I use one every time, I don't think you really need it as it's just a firm tighten. But for the sake of 30 quid it's probably worth buying to make absolutely sure the readings are accurate.

I'm erring that way too, for me it's a major outlay, I want it to work properly, and it's another tool to add to the collection.

I see someone mentioned a 3/8 inch wrench, is that definitely the size of the crow foot adaptor that comes in the box?
I notice the aftermarket Teng branded ones are 3/8 and this is the cheapest place I could find it:
http://toolstoday.co.uk/teng-15mm-crow-foot-wrench?gclid=Cj0KEQjw1duqBRDPlLKsuJCUiuABEiQAxgHwJwdkTRuhw7k47M5uw6MFtr49H3h3vuORPyTPTBVQdtAaAipA8P8HAQ
Though am hoping that the pair will come with one in the box, seems the originals were packaged that way.

If so, as I have a 2-24nm Sealey already, am considering this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000ROF64O/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1431841557&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=torque+wrench+3+8&dpPl=1&dpID=31uObGgNkDL&ref=plSrch

mfin

thecycleclinic wrote:

Well explain how pedal fitted nipped up are tighter then after a good number of miles. They do self tighten a bit. the very act of pedalling has to cause them to tighten or they would unscrew. Nipping them up tight is all the vectors need as nipping them up tight is approximately 40Nm.

1000 miles for me is a month riding (sometimes 5 weeks changing batteries every month is a chore and add a bit of expense.

Well, explain how I have only ever experienced that they don't then. The pedal body spins on the pedal axle, naff all of any torque left can be transferred into tightening pedals. By your logic if you put a pedal in loose then just by riding it for some time it will end up a 40Nm, it won't.

The battery interval is nothing though, in one month how many times will you have spent time pumping up tyres, cleaning things, washing clothes, getting ready to go etc etc. Changing batteries will take maybe 30 seconds a pedal? AAA batteries can be bought for naff all online too, hardly a cost if you can afford to drop a grand on some pedals.

daniel_b

I've gone for this one in the end:
http://www.tooled-up.com/product/sealey-3-8-square-drive-27-108nm-torque-wrench/26064/

So I now have a 2-24, and this one covers from 27-108, for about £27 delivered.

daniel_b

Daniel B wrote:

I've gone for this one in the end:
http://www.tooled-up.com/product/sealey-3-8-square-drive-27-108nm-torque-wrench/26064/

So I now have a 2-24, and this one covers from 27-108, for about £27 delivered.

Blimey, turned up this morning :shock:
Just need dem pedals now!