bike signaling rules

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  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,095
    jedster wrote:
    I've less issue with darting left than with the right hand turn situations this thread is really about

    Ballcocks - read the thread properly including particularly the OP. It is mainly about left-hand turns. I didn't see a single post advocating taking a right turn in traffic without indicating. On a steep hill, with a bad road surface and traffic it may well not be possible to take a right hand turn safely. But there are lots of other situations (roundabouts and left hand) where road positioning and shoulder checking may be safer than indicating.
    Well you know best. I concede that there must be circumstances where shoulder checking and whatnot alone is safer that shoulder checking , signalling and whatnot.

    Less is more. I stand corrected.
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    I don't get why you can't slow a little more than needed, stick your hand out briefly to indicate the turn and then get back on the job of slowing down. Or use the right hand to signal left as per the guidance in the HWC.

    i.e. right arm rotating forwards.

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  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    diy wrote:
    i.e. right arm rotating forwards.
    Because that wont confuse people more... Someone wobbles up to a gravelly downhill left turn, slows to a crawl, waves their right arm in a manner that could easily be mistaken for a high vis nodder indicating right, then turns left.

    Nope. The reason we have a wavey right-arm left turn signal is because we can't reach out of the left window when we're driving. It's just a bad suggestion to use it on a bike.

    Edit: Just clicked on the link. Fortunately the HWC doesn't actually tell a cyclist to wave their right arm when turning left, it tells them to just use their left.
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  • the_hundredth_idiot
    the_hundredth_idiot Posts: 813
    First Aspect wrote:
    Depends how much you slow to take the left. If not at all, then no you aren't going to inconvenience anyone. If you slow down a lot because it's a tight turn, well the inconvenience might be yours.

    I've less issue with darting left than with the right hand turn situations this thread is really about. I have no great problem "inconveniencing" drivers, but cutting across your lane and turning right (potentially stopping in the middle of the road to let oncoming traffic pass) isn't just an inconvenience is it. You are just putting yourself in harms way without any warning. Personally I think that's pretty dumb.

    From the OP:
    Do you always sign even turning left even if you know that you have cars behind you and they are not overtaking you and swing left?
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  • confused@BR
    confused@BR Posts: 295
    If you are turning left why indicate at all? The last 'defensive driving' course my employer sent me on suggested that signalling a left turn was a waste of effort and a distraction. "What difference does it make to the following traffic?" The gist of it was that as it would not affect the behaviour of surrounding traffic it did not need to be made.

    That was advice for motorists but cycles are no different in that situation. All a cycle is, from the point of view of a following motorist, is an encumbrance. Prompt removal is a blessing but need not be advertised by the cyclist as it would introduce choice when none is needed.
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    confused@BR wrote:
    If you are turning left why indicate at all? The last 'defensive driving' course my employer sent me on suggested that signalling a left turn was a waste of effort and a distraction. "What difference does it make to the following traffic?" The gist of it was that as it would not affect the behaviour of surrounding traffic it did not need to be made.
    It does make a difference as it indicates that you will probably be slowing down too.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    First Aspect wrote:
    Depends how much you slow to take the left. If not at all, then no you aren't going to inconvenience anyone. If you slow down a lot because it's a tight turn, well the inconvenience might be yours.

    I've less issue with darting left than with the right hand turn situations this thread is really about. I have no great problem "inconveniencing" drivers, but cutting across your lane and turning right (potentially stopping in the middle of the road to let oncoming traffic pass) isn't just an inconvenience is it. You are just putting yourself in harms way without any warning. Personally I think that's pretty dumb.

    Whilst I don't disagree with the suggestion to always indicate - there is a priority ...

    Top priority for anyone must be the vehicle safety and stability - ie don't indicate if by doing so it will cause loss of control.
  • seajays
    seajays Posts: 331
    Slowbike wrote:
    confused@BR wrote:
    If you are turning left why indicate at all? The last 'defensive driving' course my employer sent me on suggested that signalling a left turn was a waste of effort and a distraction. "What difference does it make to the following traffic?" The gist of it was that as it would not affect the behaviour of surrounding traffic it did not need to be made.
    It does make a difference as it indicates that you will probably be slowing down too.

    This - In most cases, indicating involves no effort whatsoever on the part of the driver, and helps to communicate your intent on the road to any other road users. Having to think about "will that pedestrian or that dog walker, or that following vehicle, or that car turning out from the left, or that oncoming lorry, or that cyclist want to know what I'm about to do?", all takes time, and is prone to error. Rather than trying to second guess what everyone else on the road might like to know about what you're doing, simply signal your intentions and let them make their own mind up!
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  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Seajays wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    confused@BR wrote:
    If you are turning left why indicate at all? The last 'defensive driving' course my employer sent me on suggested that signalling a left turn was a waste of effort and a distraction. "What difference does it make to the following traffic?" The gist of it was that as it would not affect the behaviour of surrounding traffic it did not need to be made.
    It does make a difference as it indicates that you will probably be slowing down too.

    This - In most cases, indicating involves no effort whatsoever on the part of the driver, and helps to communicate your intent on the road to any other road users. Having to think about "will that pedestrian or that dog walker, or that following vehicle, or that car turning out from the left, or that oncoming lorry, or that cyclist want to know what I'm about to do?", all takes time, and is prone to error. Rather than trying to second guess what everyone else on the road might like to know about what you're doing, simply signal your intentions and let them make their own mind up!

    which is ok until they indicate incorrectly .... which doesn't happen that often ... NOT! ;)
  • confused@BR
    confused@BR Posts: 295
    As far as a motorist is concerned you are already slow. It matters little if you are doing ten or fifteen mph you are still slow, if you are going faster you aren't turning left at a junction.

    By all means signal but don't put yourself in distress. It doesn't matter to the following motorist, they will not be changing their behaviour.
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