Upgrading front derailleur from Tiagra

johnmcl7
johnmcl7 Posts: 162
edited May 2015 in Road buying advice
I have a 2013 Trek 1.5 road bike which has 2x10 Tiagra (both shifters and derailleurs, front derailleur is a clamp on type) with n FSA 50/34 compact crank. The FD/shifter has three positions, two for the 34 chainring but only one for the 50 chainring so the chain always seems to rub at some point no matter how I adjust it. I don't have much experience with the road bike parts, it seems odd that there are two positions for the smaller chainring but not the bigger - are the higher groupset FD's or shifters any better for this?

Sram's yaw technology on their front derailleurs sounds a good solution to this issue but if I've worked it out correctly the cheapest shifter and FD would be around £105 for both, is that correct? I'm thinking it's probably a bit too pricey for a bike like this but curious what people think of the system as I've read quite mixed opinions so far.

On the Bikeradar page today there's an article on brakes with a recommendation for 105 brakes which look relatively inexpensive (£40 for the pair) so I was considering them to upgrade the Tiagra brakes if that would give some improvement. However the CRC page claims that 'Must be used in conjunction with ST-5800, ST-6800 or ST-9000 STIs for correct leverage ratio' although I can't find a reference to this on the Shimano page which seems a bit short on detail, is that information correct?

Thanks,
John

Comments

  • mugensi
    mugensi Posts: 559
    Get your own FD set up properly, it shouldnt rub anywhere. I have a 9spd FD on my 10spd Tiagra bike and I can get all gears in both big and small chain ring and no rubbing. You possibly need to adjust the inner or outer limit screws a tad.

    You are correct about the trim feature only on the small ring but its all thats needed on 4500 Tiagra if adjusted correctly.

    If you upgraded to a 5800/6800/9000 FD then you will also need 5800 shifter to match and then if your changing the left shifter you'd have two different design front shifters, one with hidden gear cable and one with exposed so your then into more money to change both shifters which are 11 spd and so you'd be as well going the whole hog and changing the whole bike to 11spd.

    It'll be much much cheaper (free if you do it yourself, there are loads of excellent tutorials on youtube) to simply set your own up correctly.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Don't worry too much about compatibility between your shifters and 105 brake calipers. They'd work optimally with the matching shifters, but I suspect you'll still see an improvement in braking moving from Tiagra. Much stiffer caliper, and metal cartridge holders / inserts vs the all in one moulded jobs.

    I'm thinking of doing the same; I have Tiagra calipers, but older 105 shifters, on the carbon bike (long story)

    Initially I looked at replacing the brake blocks with metal holders / cartridges, but I think the money would be better spent on replacing the lot with new 105.
  • johnmcl7
    johnmcl7 Posts: 162
    keef66 wrote:
    Don't worry too much about compatibility between your shifters and 105 brake calipers. They'd work optimally with the matching shifters, but I suspect you'll still see an improvement in braking moving from Tiagra. Much stiffer caliper, and metal cartridge holders / inserts vs the all in one moulded jobs.

    I'm thinking of doing the same; I have Tiagra calipers, but older 105 shifters, on the carbon bike (long story)

    Initially I looked at replacing the brake blocks with metal holders / cartridges, but I think the money would be better spent on replacing the lot with new 105.

    Thanks, I was looking at the bike today and it isn't even Tiagra brakes that's on there - they're black unbranded ones and on the Trek site they're just referred to as dual pivot brakes so I'm thinking that would make it more worthwhile to upgrade them.

    John
  • johnmcl7
    johnmcl7 Posts: 162
    MugenSi wrote:
    Get your own FD set up properly, it shouldnt rub anywhere. I have a 9spd FD on my 10spd Tiagra bike and I can get all gears in both big and small chain ring and no rubbing. You possibly need to adjust the inner or outer limit screws a tad.

    It's been reconfigured several times by different people and it still always rubs at one end so adjusting the inner/outer limit screws just changes which gears it rubs on. It was exactly the same with another Tiagra bike from another bike shop, if the lower chainring can't handle all gears in one derailleur position I don't see why the big chain ring should be able to particularly as it does seem to flex more under higher power.
    If you upgraded to a 5800/6800/9000 FD then you will also need 5800 shifter to match and then if your changing the left shifter you'd have two different design front shifters, one with hidden gear cable and one with exposed so your then into more money to change both shifters which are 11 spd and so you'd be as well going the whole hog and changing the whole bike to 11spd.

    It'll be much much cheaper (free if you do it yourself, there are loads of excellent tutorials on youtube) to simply set your own up correctly.

    That's the first I've heard of it not being compatible and Shimano show a Tiagra shifter can work with a 105 or Ultegra front derailleur:

    http://bicycles.stackexchange.com/quest ... ent-series

    It's not an expensive bike and it has no disc brake mounts so there's no point in spending a lot of time and money upgrading the entire drivetrain up to 105.

    John
  • bobones
    bobones Posts: 1,215
    Johnmcl7 wrote:
    I have a 2013 Trek 1.5 road bike which has 2x10 Tiagra (both shifters and derailleurs, front derailleur is a clamp on type) with n FSA 50/34 compact crank. The FD/shifter has three positions, two for the 34 chainring but only one for the 50 chainring so the chain always seems to rub at some point no matter how I adjust it. I don't have much experience with the road bike parts, it seems odd that there are two positions for the smaller chainring but not the bigger - are the higher groupset FD's or shifters any better for this?
    There are 4 positions for the derailleur cage controlled by the shift lever:
    • cage farthest out - big ring - there should be no chain rub for smallest rear cogs, but possibly some rub on largest sprockets.
    • one click on small lever should move cage inwards a little to eliminate rubbing on largest rear sprockets
    • next click on small shifter drops chain to small chainring. There should be no rubbing of the chain on the derailleur cage on largest sprockets, but there may be some on smallest rear cogs. Additionally the chain may rub inside of large chainring when on smallest rear cogs.
    • one click on large lever should move cage outward a little to eliminate rubbing on the cage with the smallest cogs, but it won't stop the chain rubbing on the inside of the large chainring
    If you're not getting the first click then the cable tension may be too high or low (use barrel adjuster), but you should be able to set up the derailleur so that you all but eliminate the rubbing. However, in extreme positions like small-small there may be some noise, which is acceptable since you should be shifting to the big ring before you go near that combination.

    Setting up a FD can be tricky and requires patience and a degree of trial and error, but there should be no need to buy new equipment to make it work acceptably.

    http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/ ... 607086.pdf
  • johnmcl7
    johnmcl7 Posts: 162
    bobones wrote:
    Johnmcl7 wrote:
    I have a 2013 Trek 1.5 road bike which has 2x10 Tiagra (both shifters and derailleurs, front derailleur is a clamp on type) with n FSA 50/34 compact crank. The FD/shifter has three positions, two for the 34 chainring but only one for the 50 chainring so the chain always seems to rub at some point no matter how I adjust it. I don't have much experience with the road bike parts, it seems odd that there are two positions for the smaller chainring but not the bigger - are the higher groupset FD's or shifters any better for this?
    There are 4 positions for the derailleur cage controlled by the shift lever:
    • cage farthest out - big ring - there should be no chain rub for smallest rear cogs, but possibly some rub on largest sprockets.
    • one click on small lever should move cage inwards a little to eliminate rubbing on largest rear sprockets
    • next click on small shifter drops chain to small chainring. There should be no rubbing of the chain on the derailleur cage on largest sprockets, but there may be some on smallest rear cogs. Additionally the chain may rub inside of large chainring when on smallest rear cogs.
    • one click on large lever should move cage outward a little to eliminate rubbing on the cage with the smallest cogs, but it won't stop the chain rubbing on the inside of the large chainring
    If you're not getting the first click then the cable tension may be too high or low (use barrel adjuster), but you should be able to set up the derailleur so that you all but eliminate the rubbing. However, in extreme positions like small-small there may be some noise, which is acceptable since you should be shifting to the big ring before you go near that combination.

    Setting up a FD can be tricky and requires patience and a degree of trial and error, but there should be no need to buy new equipment to make it work acceptably.

    http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/ ... 607086.pdf

    This is what I was missing so thanks very much for posting that even though it's clearly something I should have known. I was shown the trim position for the lower chainring but never the upper chainring even when I've discussed this with other people, I've just been out to check the bike and the second trim position works fine.

    Back to the brakes as that's my FD issue sorted, since I don't have the Tiagra brakes after all I'm thinking perhaps they would be worth upgrading to from what I have since they should work fully with my shifters. I was discussing this with a friend this morning and he'd mentioned that in the process of upgrading a bike when it temporarily had Ultegra calipers and Sora shifters it needed more of a pull for the brakes even when tightened. I guess the important question is what I have right now so I'll get a picture of them. I have been toying with a bike fitted with hydraulic brakes as I've never liked the rim brakes on my road bike however there's clearly a lot of change happening in that area on road bikes and I think for now it makes sense to perhaps upgrade mine a little and see how the road bike disc options settle down.

    John
  • johnmcl7
    johnmcl7 Posts: 162
    The issue with the FD is clearly user error, I just didn't know about the trim on the top position so that's great - quite happy at that.

    That makes sense about the brakes, I've never liked them from the start but just assumed that's because they're rim brakes and obviously have limitations compared to hydraulic disc brakes however some people have said they're not as bad as all that hence thinking of upgrading since new calipers wouldn't be that much.

    I'd like something with hydraulic brakes but not wanting to fork out through the nose for it when there will be more mainstream options in time. That said when browsing this forum I came across the PlanetX London Road which seems mostly what I'm wanting.

    John

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