Why is E^ans Cycles selling returned goods as new ?

mister88

Hi all
I recently placed an order for an Exposure Maxx D MK7 at E^ans cycles. Upon collection of the light, I did a few checks and noticed the following issues :

1. The rim of the case close to the LEDs was scratched exposing the metal beneath in a few places
2. There was a substance resembling dirt in the gap between the lens and rim
3. The CNCed casing of the light was somewhat shiny near the rear but looked dull, matte and lightly scratched in other places

My first impression was this light had just been used in an off-road race on a rainy day and then wiped clean. Despite bringing these issues to the attention of the staff, the staff insisted the light was "new and straight from the warehouse". Although I really wanted the light, I could not accept it.

That evening, I called up E^vans support line and the person I spoke to did suspect I was given a returned item. However honest and respectful this chap was, he was unable to assure me this wouldn't happen again if I decided to order again.

I also tried to share my experience by posting on the E^ans website under the product but my post was rejected as it had broken one or more of their "posting rules" which I suspect includes "Block anything which could harm E^ans' reputation no matter how true"

As I have now lost trust in this particular bike store chain, can anyone recommend some trustworthy stores where I should make this purchase ? I only want to buy a Maxx D mk7 in brand new condition, not used.

I noticed many bike stores in the UK offer returns on goods for periods from weeks up to months. Does anyone know what happens to returned goods ? Do they go back to the manufacturer or do they get diluted with new stock as E^ans cycles appears to do ?

Thanks in advance

Chunkers1980

What's with the ^?

cooldad

Post edited 5 times?

But as this is buying advice, I'd suggest a Google search of stockists.

Although I would generally not inspect something that closely if I bought it boxed in a shop.

nicklouse

Moved to the correct section.

As you inspected if on collection I guess you left it in the shop.

veronese68

A dishonest customer bought the light, used it and then lied when returning it perhaps. The guy that took it back may not have checked it as thoroughly as you. Maybe it was a genuine mistake as Evans have a clearance section selling shop soiled and returned items, there are often Exposure lights in there.

Angus Young

Chunkers1980 wrote:

What's with the ^?

Far be it for me to suggest that the OP might be an Evans competitor, but...

First post and an attack on a retailer. Smell familiar? And when Evans do the usual search for themselves, as most big companies do periodically to check up on this kind of stuff, they'll not turn up this post so they won't be able to challenge its veracity. It's an old trick for the new age.

mister88

Veronese68 wrote:

A dishonest customer bought the light, used it and then lied when returning it perhaps. The guy that took it back may not have checked it as thoroughly as you. Maybe it was a genuine mistake as Evans have a clearance section selling shop soiled and returned items, there are often Exposure lights in there.

Perhaps a mistake but a shame it was handled so badly by the staff on duty.

@cooldad : Edited 5 times to add content and correct typos in between babysitting a monster.

I also checked out Wiggle and chain reaction but would prefer to go to a store to pick up the item myself. Even with help from Google, I did not manage to find any traditional bike stores with the light in stock. All pre-order or similar which I cannot wait for as I am leaving the country in a week.

@Angus : I am not a competitor of Evans but I sure don't like them after they tried to trick me into walking out the door with 2nd hand goods. Not ethical ....

Chunkers1980

Mistakes happen. Move on. Oh, you are. Shame the Internet is everywhere. You do know you can have stuff delivered the next day?

russyh

Nothing surprises me with Evans cycles to be honest. Service at my local store is frankly abysmal. Thank god, otherwise they would kill the decent LBS.

Take it as a lesson and never spend a £ with them again.

drlodge

I've used Evans quite a few times recently as they do price match and I get 8% discount off that with them. Never had a problem so far - all my orders are made online then I collect in store. Mainly "accessories" so less to go wrong I guess.

Know your rights and exercise them, if goods are not as described, take it back.

apreading

All stores will do this - online or in shop. When goods are returned, they are supposed to be inspected and if not in mint saleable 'as new' condition they have the right to refuse the return. Obviously something slipped through the net here. Normally if a display or ex-demo or otherwise soiled item is noticed, they will sell it as such, some retailers do that through ebay, Evans have an ex-demo/seconds section on their website.

As this one slipped through the net, probably from an online return, the shop received a box from the central warehouse, assumed it was brand new and sold it as such. The staff member who helped you should be admonished for poor customer relations by the sound of it - it was obviously not new so they should have held their hands up and agreed with you, but ultimately you saw it for what it was and did not make the purchase - where is the damage here?

I have had clothing from 2 large internet retailers of cycling kit which had marks on it, I emailed them and said that I think it will wash out but before I try, I would like assurance that I can return it should that not be the case. They agreed and the marks washed out. No harm, no foul.

I honestly dont understand why the rant and why you think any other retailer would do differently.

The Rookie

mister88 wrote:

@Angus : I am not a competitor of Evans but I sure don't like them after they tried to trick me into walking out the door with 2nd hand goods. Not ethical ....

They can only be tricking you and being unethical if they knew about it, if they didn't they weren't, as has been suggested there is a very good reason why they may not have been aware.

get over it!

oodboo

I love it when people join forums just have a rant about a shop.

veronese68

Plenty of Exposure lights, including MaXxD's, in their clearance section as lightly soiled or with bits missing. Maybe that very light will show up there cheaper.

mister88

oodboo wrote:

I love it when people join forums just have a rant about a shop.

I also love to rant

Chunkers1980

mister88 wrote:

oodboo wrote:

I love it when people join forums just have a rant about a shop.

I also love to rant

Er?

tangled_metal

Well I am perfectly happy with my local Evans Cycles. I have had nothing but good service from them. I have returned stuff due to a mixture of them not being complete (rack without half the fittings which got replaced from the fittings of a similar rack in stock) to a case of me misreading the shimano part number and ordering the wrong pedals. I got the money back on the pedals by going to the store and they gave me all the screws and fitting bars from a narrower rack that matched the expedition rack from tortec. I am seriously pleased with them.

The price match works so easily. I had seen a few racks I wanted in other stores but the delivery time was too long and the express delivery was a lot. I then copied the link into Evans price match window and got an email within 5 minutes saying they didn't price match that site/store. So I repeated with two other links which were only £1 more and one got rejected and the other gave me a discount code and link which I used to order it at the same price with next day for a lot less than the other store (delivery next day was £4.99 compared to £8 in the other store).

The only complaint I got was due to my complaint about the delivery of the rack with the fittings loose in the box (washer and screws rattling around loose). I sent a picture too. I got an email acknowledging the complaint and saying a reply within 24 hours. I never got anything and just moved on because the local store sorted me out. I suspect I got no email reply because I got a phone call on my mobile instead. Looking back I did notice a private number calling me a lot starting from the next working day to the email complaint (I complained at about 5pm friday so getting calls from about 9:30 the Monday makes sense.

I personally think it is a mistake in the warehouse where a picker went to the wrong place or the returned and seconds product was put in the wrong place and got picked honestly. Whatever it was the OP's complaint is with the company initially and only when no joy is there even any justification for ranting online to let others be aware. In this case it seems to me he found out it was not as new and chose not to buy. That means he never entered a sales contract and there was no real foul. That part has probably now been returned to warehouse as a second and is being sold as such in their seconds section. BTW the pedals I returned were as new because I am always meticulous about opening packaged purchases so after inspection I can return them if not what I expected. I believe in taking that little bit of effort. So if you picked up either the M620 or M630 pedals from my local store that I returned you can rest assured they are all intact.

diy

Quite happy with Evans part of the attraction is their price match promise.

Have a look at the big lights thread and see if you can't find something twice as good as the Maxx D mk7 - for £200 cheaper

You are aware that this light has LED technology almost 5 years old now?

Angus Young

mister88 wrote:

@Angus : I am not a competitor of Evans but I sure don't like them after they tried to trick me into walking out the door with 2nd hand goods. Not ethical ....

As I said, far be it for me to suggest...

ben@31

It's not a rant but when you're paying a few hunted quid for a top product, I'd expect the product to be in reasonable condition.

In my case, I wanted some glasses for cycling. They could well have been the most expensive glasses in the shop.
While buying them in store, the staff tried to mug me off with giving me the pair that was on display for the full retail price ( in fact they were over retail price as I had to get the store to price match). The lenses were a mess, they looked like they had been handled by many customers walking in the store. I flatly refused them.

The Evans store then talked me into receiving another pair via their mail order.

Few days later, a pair of sunglasses arrived through the post. The packaging had been blatantly ripped open previously, items shuffled arround and the lenses were dirty and covered in finger prints. I wouldn't put it past them to have posted me the same pair.

When you're paying the full retail price for a top end product, is it unreasonable to expect the product to be in a new condition? If the glasses are ex-display only, they should have been sold accordingly.

mister88

ben@31 wrote:

It's not a rant but when you're paying a few hunted quid for a top product, I'd expect the product to be in reasonable condition.

Exactly !

A few tips for any Evans Management who read this :
1. Allow all paying customers to post on your own website (not just the ones which make your company appear good )
2. Take heed of dissatisfied customers who call your support line or try to post on your website
3. Adjust your returns policy if you cannot handle the abuse of it, the volume of returns and the resultant losses
4. Educate your staff to treat customers with a bit more respect
5. Improve how you process returned goods. Anything returned is technically used and should be processed as such. The extra discounting on it’s price should reflect the level of use/wear and tear but it should still be marked as such for the paying customer to be aware of. This applies especially to products such as lights which use sealed lithium ion batteries which can degrade if neglected e.g charge reaches zero and is left uncharged.

If a purchaser bought a light, played with it depleting it's charge, let it sit for 2 months then decided they wanted a refund and returned it. The battery capacity would have dropped quite significantly compared to a light stored with optimal charge ( from the factory ). Although the light may look new, it's battery has aged prematurely. Is this fair to the next purchaser who pays full retail for it ?

paul.skibum

If you are paying full retail then help the little man out rather than chain stores. Most decent local bike shops will order stuff in for you if you know specifically what you want.

The Evans I used to live near was alright but as a general rule it was soulless, poorly stocked in terms of variety or interesting/decent kit and aimed themselves at the more money than sense buyer.

I bought a pair of gloves as they stocked Specialized gloves which I like and I couldn't get elsewhere locally or from CRC, a new tyre and a gear cable that I needed at short notice when the other local stores were shut (sundays). The staff were next to useless as a general rule.

njee20

in fact they were over retail price as I had to get the store to price match

Eh? By retail I assume you mean RRP, and just because someone sells below that doesn't mean Evans were selling above retail...

Have a look at the big lights thread and see if you can't find something twice as good as the Maxx D mk7 - for £200 cheaper

Good as a firework, or a bike light? I've seen people saying how amazing these Chinese lights are, but they don't last, Chargers are dangerous etc. I get they have a place, and I'm sure you can get one as bright as a Maxx D for far less. But as good? I'd be interested, got any links? Looking for 30+ hour run time, automatically adjusting dimming settings, a visual battery life readout in hours/minutes, programmable settings, in an wholly self contained 300g package.

JodyP

mister88 wrote:

If a purchaser bought a light, played with it depleting it's charge, let it sit for 2 months then decided they wanted a refund and returned it. The battery capacity would have dropped quite significantly compared to a light stored with optimal charge ( from the factory ). Although the light may look new, it's battery has aged prematurely. Is this fair to the next purchaser who pays full retail for it ?

Clutching at straws here. The company made a MISTAKE and are not trying to deceive you, shit happens so move on!

If you are genuinely that upset then go through the proper channels with Evans and complain to them. If you have no joy write a letter and ask for an official response rather than sign up to an internet forum with the sole purpose of trying to defame them.

njee20

^^ this

Are you suggesting that you shouldn't be able to return lights, to prevent buyers having one which is cosmetically perfect but has a "significantly" reduced battery capacity? You'd be a bit scuppered right now, what with returning lights and all. Or are you suggesting that every retailer should return every returned product to the manufacturer to be checked for use? Slight practicality issues there...

mister88

njee20 wrote:

^^ this

Are you suggesting that you shouldn't be able to return lights, to prevent buyers having one which is cosmetically perfect but has a "significantly" reduced battery capacity? You'd be a bit scuppered right now, what with returning lights and all. Or are you suggesting that every retailer should return every returned product to the manufacturer to be checked for use? Slight practicality issues there...

For products which have a shelf life such as lithium ion products and are costly to have their batteries replaced, yes, I do not think the return policy should not stretch out to 3 months or even 365 days as some companies do.
For items like spanners & wrenches yes, its fine.

As the electronics market has changed alot in recent years where manufacturers are fitting devices with wired or very hard to replace batteries which makes maintenance more costly and replacement only possible at the support centre, i think this should be reflected in retail policies.

Question for you, how long does it take to decide if a light is right for you ? It would take me about 1 day to decide if not before the purchase, not 90 days and definitely not a year . Given the abundance of online reviews, demo items in shops, hire shops, forums, it's not like we're buying blind. The current return policy is great for those who take the p1ss. You could race for a season, get your money back at the end of and buy the new model the next year and so on...

Or I could have just missed a plain amd simple fact that Evans is actually hire shop ! my stupidity...

Where I live, you have 10 days to exchange and thats if there is a genuine fault. Faults discovered later are covered by generous manufacturer warranties. It works well as shops stock new items only so you don' t have any "mistakes" to deal with. I drove 45 miles to pick up the light then 45 miles back home empty handed ( in traffic ). These "mistakes" cost consumers time and money.

You say there are slight practical issues. Yes, there are but should they be with the retailer or the consumer ?

apreading

Evans, please dont listen to these guys and dont change your returns policy. If you did, the result would be that we all pay more for the items we buy because you would have to cover the losses made on returned items which are 100% as new but that you now sell at a lower price for some reason.

The current policy is the correct one and the only workable solution for you as a business or us as customers.

The only failing here is the odd item slipping through the net without being properly checked and the dissapointing attitude that staff seem to have had in dealing with the situations that have resulted. In practice, the odd one will always slip through the net, so resolve to do a better job of checking but accept this inevitability - but most importantly - train/educate your staff to be nicer and more helpful...

veronese68

You drove 90 miles to pick something up when they offer free delivery?

JodyP

mister88 wrote:

Question for you, how long does it take to decide if a light is right for you ? It would take me about 1 day to decide if not before the purchase, not 90 days and definitely not a year . Given the abundance of online reviews, demo items in shops, hire shops, forums, it's not like we're buying blind. The current return policy is great for those who take the p1ss. You could race for a season, get your money back at the end of and buy the new model the next year and so on...

Where I live, you have 10 days to exchange and thats if there is a genuine fault. Faults discovered later are covered by generous manufacturer warranties. It works well as shops stock new items only so you don' t have any "mistakes" to deal with. I drove 45 miles to pick up the light then 45 miles back home empty handed ( in traffic ). These "mistakes" cost consumers time and money.

Do you live in the UK? If yes you are talking utter b*llocks. You have 28 days to return any product in a saleable condition. Not 10 and only if its faulty. If withing 28 days its faulty, you are entitled to a replacement or refund. Beyond 28 days the shop can offer you a credit note for the value of goods but has no obligation to give you your money back.

You drove 90 miles as a round trip, wasted 3+ hours of your life and cost £10+ in fuel. Why did you not just order it online.

njee20

You say there are slight practical issues. Yes, there are but should they be with the retailer or the consumer ?

Well the effort is for the retailer, the associated costs will be passed straight to the consumer. I'm not keen on having a more stringent policy to deal with and pay more for the pleasure.

You could race for a season, get your money back at the end of and buy the new model the next year and so on...

If you're a complete tool yes, you could, however most retailers would tell you to jog on the second they noticed you were randomly returning something clearly used because you'd changed your mind. To that end though, you could also just steal one each year, even easier. Evans don't allow you to return used goods unless faulty. Someone must have just missed the light you got, quite possibly because the person who brought it back was dishonest and said they'd not used it, when they clearly had. Possibly a stocking error by Evans.

They're not out to get you though!

Antm81

You still haven't explained why you can't spell Evans. Still stinks of competitor trying to slyly discredit their competition.