£12 billion in welfare cuts
Comments
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You answer first before you ask; in your ideal world with no benefits, what happens to the inevitable unemployed???0
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So read the studies on basic income, and you'll see the answer; there isn't all that much change. More people in education, longer maternity leave.
http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/
I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm just pleased at least one government is actually looking at evidence rather than theory.0 -
Who said anyrhing about no benefits? Has mamba hacked your account?You answer first before you ask; in your ideal world with no benefits, what happens to the inevitable unemployed???
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I have said on here before that people who have genuine needs should be catered for by the benefits system. There is ample money in the benefits budget to do that. There are people though that milk the system by refusing work or refusing to do more than so many hours so as not to impinge on their benefits.
So before castigating us on the right, save your ire for those that can work but won't, thereby depriving the genuine needy.0 -
Is this a private argument or can anyone join in?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Not sure how that is fundamentally different from benefits of approx £570 pcm? Which is far from unusual over here. Lets look at Finnish unemployment patterns:So read the studies on basic income, and you'll see the answer; there isn't all that much change. More people in education, longer maternity leave.
http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/
I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm just pleased at least one government is actually looking at evidence rather than theory.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/unemployment_rate_at_10_every_fifth_young_person_without_work/8171703
And surprise, surprise its pretty high and rising. What do you think happens when you pay people enough to do nothing? :roll:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nope, it's definitely private. I''see if I can get an invite...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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Not if you're a leftie you can't. There is aleady an oversupply on the forum and you'll only put more of them out of a job. Imagine the whigeing thenIs this a private argument or can anyone join in? "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not if you're a leftie you can't. There is aleady an oversupply on the forum and you'll only put more of them out of a job. Imagine the whigeing thenIs this a private argument or can anyone join in?
As long as they don't claim benefits as a result.0 -
][url=<span class= wrote:Stevo 666[/url]"]
Not if you're a leftie you can't. There is aleady an oversupply on the forum and you'll only put more of them out of a job. Imagine the whigeing then[url=<span class= wrote:Pinno[/url]"]Is this a private argument or can anyone join in?Tory government tries in vain to be more coercive than the last, every labour administration tries to throw more money at the problem than the previous one in an endless cycle. Neither work.
If you read my post but you didn't.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Not sure how that is fundamentally different from benefits of approx £570 pcm? Which is far from unusual over here. Lets look at Finnish unemployment patterns:So read the studies on basic income, and you'll see the answer; there isn't all that much change. More people in education, longer maternity leave.
http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/
I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm just pleased at least one government is actually looking at evidence rather than theory.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/unemployment_rate_at_10_every_fifth_young_person_without_work/8171703
And surprise, surprise its pretty high and rising. What do you think happens when you pay people enough to do nothing? :roll:
The article that you have linked says that the main problem is a lack of opportunities, rather than the benefits system.
Also, Rick is talking about a proposed policy. You can't blame a future plan for current high unemployment.0 -
So what's the answer then, oh Oracle of Stranraer?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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So how is paying people to do nothing going to help reduce unemplyment in future?
Not sure how that is fundamentally different from benefits of approx £570 pcm? Which is far from unusual over here. Lets look at Finnish unemployment patterns:So read the studies on basic income, and you'll see the answer; there isn't all that much change. More people in education, longer maternity leave.
http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/
I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm just pleased at least one government is actually looking at evidence rather than theory.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/unemployment_rate_at_10_every_fifth_young_person_without_work/8171703
And surprise, surprise its pretty high and rising. What do you think happens when you pay people enough to do nothing? :roll:
The article that you have linked says that the main problem is a lack of opportunities, rather than the benefits system.
Also, Rick is talking about a proposed policy. You can't blame a future plan for current high unemployment."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So what's the answer then, oh Oracle of Stranraer?
You still haven't read my post, Basher of Bromley.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Not if you're a leftie you can't. There is aleady an oversupply on the forum and you'll only put more of them out of a job. Imagine the whigeing thenIs this a private argument or can anyone join in?
These 'll be the ones that can't make it. Will I be able to look down my nose at them and hope they die in poverty? Please Stevo, can I, can I ? Please StevO... 0 -
So how is paying people to do nothing going to help reduce unemplyment in future?
Not sure how that is fundamentally different from benefits of approx £570 pcm? Which is far from unusual over here. Lets look at Finnish unemployment patterns:So read the studies on basic income, and you'll see the answer; there isn't all that much change. More people in education, longer maternity leave.
http://qz.com/566702/finland-plans-to-give-every-citizen-a-basic-income-of-800-euros-a-month/
I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm just pleased at least one government is actually looking at evidence rather than theory.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/unemployment_rate_at_10_every_fifth_young_person_without_work/8171703
And surprise, surprise its pretty high and rising. What do you think happens when you pay people enough to do nothing? :roll:
The article that you have linked says that the main problem is a lack of opportunities, rather than the benefits system.
Also, Rick is talking about a proposed policy. You can't blame a future plan for current high unemployment.
Why not read Rick's links?
You also seem to assume that giving people enough to live on will be a disincentive to work. It might be for a small number of people, but the plan is to give all citizens the money, not just the unemployed, so people in receipt of this money would still have an incentive to work. The proposal is €800/month (about £575) - I'm very confident that the vast majority of people would not be happy with that sort of money and would still want to go out and work.
I don't know if the proposal is feasible or not, I guess we'll have to wait and see, but if another country's trying it out, why not give it a fair hearing?0 -
Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?0
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From Rick's link
As the proposal hasn’t been published yet, it’s not yet known exactly who will lose out. But those who currently receive housing support or disability benefits could conceivably end up with less under national basic income, since the plan calls for scrapping existing benefits. And as national basic income would only give a monthly allowance to adults, a single mother of three could struggle to support herself
We've had the furore about the benefit cap and the Lords forcing Osbourne to scrap his ax credit reduction, so what do you think would be the reaction to this.0 -
The way I read it is that we already are.Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?
Finland is simplifying it and passing the savings on.
Who knows? It may actually mean that some spend more boosting the economy. It may work.
If it works, it would be mad to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with some personal opinions.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I would've thought any extra money would be absorbed by the housing market? To my mind it really is at the root cause of a lot of issues in this country.0
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The way I read it is that we already are.Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?
Finland is simplifying it and passing the savings on.
Who knows? It may actually mean that some spend more boosting the economy. It may work.
If it works, it would be mad to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with some personal opinions.
What of the example above I quoted from Rick's article concerning a single mother of 3?0 -
I am in full agreement of fathers paying maintenance.
The way I read it is that we already are.Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?
Finland is simplifying it and passing the savings on.
Who knows? It may actually mean that some spend more boosting the economy. It may work.
If it works, it would be mad to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with some personal opinions.
What of the example above I quoted from Rick's article concerning a single mother of 3?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
100%I would've thought any extra money would be absorbed by the housing market? To my mind it really is at the root cause of a lot of issues in this country.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I am in full agreement of fathers paying maintenance.
The way I read it is that we already are.Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?
Finland is simplifying it and passing the savings on.
Who knows? It may actually mean that some spend more boosting the economy. It may work.
If it works, it would be mad to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with some personal opinions.
What of the example above I quoted from Rick's article concerning a single mother of 3?
So the absent father gives the mother his 500 smackers? Problem solved?
Widows?0 -
At least one of the parents could and should work to earn above sustenance.
I am in full agreement of fathers paying maintenance.
The way I read it is that we already are.Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?
Finland is simplifying it and passing the savings on.
Who knows? It may actually mean that some spend more boosting the economy. It may work.
If it works, it would be mad to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with some personal opinions.
What of the example above I quoted from Rick's article concerning a single mother of 3?
So the absent father gives the mother his 500 smackers? Problem solved?
Widows?
Widows currently receive less than the Finish proposal.
Are you proposing even more?
Every eventuality will boil down to housing cost. Nothing will be solved until there is a massive reduction.
Therefore nothing will be solved.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Who said anyrhing about no benefits? Has mamba hacked your account?You answer first before you ask; in your ideal world with no benefits, what happens to the inevitable unemployed???
Don't wriggle out of answering.
Let me rephrase.
In Stevo's ideal world, how does the inevitable unemployed (which you've already sent you're comfortable with) make ends meet with no income?
Sure, longer term they can train to get a job etc, but meanwhile?0 -
At least one of the parents could and should work to earn above sustenance.
I am in full agreement of fathers paying maintenance.
The way I read it is that we already are.Don't get me wrong, an extra grand a month for me and Mrs B is not to be sneezed at but it would be lunacy. How long before somebody moans that it is subsidising low wages?
Finland is simplifying it and passing the savings on.
Who knows? It may actually mean that some spend more boosting the economy. It may work.
If it works, it would be mad to dismiss it because it doesn't fit with some personal opinions.
What of the example above I quoted from Rick's article concerning a single mother of 3?
So the absent father gives the mother his 500 smackers? Problem solved?
Widows?
Widows currently receive less than the Finish proposal.
Are you proposing even more?
Every eventuality will boil down to housing cost. Nothing will be solved until there is a massive reduction.
Therefore nothing will be solved.
That is something we agree on. But it doesn't always happen now, so why do you think it would change if everyone was given 500 notes a month?
Are you saying that a widowed mother of 3 kids on benefits gets less than £500 a month?
Yes the cost of housing is a big worry. The implementation of such a system though would cause the ar5e to fall out of the market overnight, causing a crash that we could not believe.0 -
Too much of an effort to snip the above on a phone.
The feckless will already be claiming more than £500/month. This will be due to housing. See below.
A widow's benefit purely due to being a widow is less than £500/month.
Housing crash? Good. Has to happen. And I am a house owner.
Housing costs are the cause of all financial woes.
The higher the cost, the more money is required, the more money available the higher the cost..... And continue indefinitely.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It wasn't particularly clear which bit you meant so I've quoted the bit below that I think was your magic solution - can you confirm?So what's the answer then, oh Oracle of Stranraer?
You still haven't read my post, Basher of Bromley.
"What I envisage in the future is immigrants filling the low and semi-skilled positions. They are much more employable than certain sections of our indigenous population who will continue on a downward spiral no matter what we throw at them. If giving them a straight handout has the potential to allow them to make their own decisions and invest rather than fritter the cash, what other choice do we have?""I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Let me say it again in case you missed the point. I never said there should be no benefits. Benefits are the same as income from the point of view of the recipient (effectively cash). Clear?
Who said anyrhing about no benefits? Has mamba hacked your account?You answer first before you ask; in your ideal world with no benefits, what happens to the inevitable unemployed???
Don't wriggle out of answering.
Let me rephrase.
In Stevo's ideal world, how does the inevitable unemployed (which you've already sent you're comfortable with) make ends meet with no income?
Sure, longer term they can train to get a job etc, but meanwhile?
The question is how much. So lets try again - you are proposing an alternative so tell us how much more would you pay people and how many?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
