advice on shifters not working

ashtec

Hi all hope some one can help

I have a giant defy composite 3 2012 bike.
im haviing isues with the left shifter for the front derailer it has tiagra shifters
some times when i need to down shift to the smaller cog i opperate the smaller lever (the smaller lever) theres no feed back from the lever like its not attaced to the mechisiom the opperatses the racthet to adjust the cable im assuming its not worn out as im a fair weather rider and the bike has only coverd 300 miles since i brought it new. i do lube the levers when i clean the bike so not sure if theres a common problem with that year of shifter.

so im thinking of upgrading to shimano 105 shifters as they look better than the tiagra ones then i thought mabye goint to a 11speed set up and wonderd if a 11 speed cassette will fit on the original wheel ?? or is it just best to stay on a 10 speed set up

Bobbinogs

Why don't you try starting this thread again...as in "I am having trouble with gear shifts and wondered what is the best/cheapest way of fixing this". Then you can give the symptoms and details of what you have already done so that folks can give the best advice. Having a double shifter fail is not impossible but highly improbable.

I have found that modern Sora through to Ultegra all works very well IF it is setup correctly and maintained well. Same goes for the range of Campag.

If the problem is your own maintenance skills then swapping kit won't make things better in the long run

dgunthor

i do lube the levers when i clean the bike

what do you do? you might be washing the grease away?

ashtec

dgunthor wrote:

i do lube the levers when i clean the bike

what do you do? you might be washing the grease away?

i operate the lever to apply the brakes to get some oil to the pivot points
the oil i use is the muck off c3 ceramic lube

dgunthor

ashtec wrote:

dgunthor wrote:

i do lube the levers when i clean the bike

what do you do? you might be washing the grease away?

i operate the lever to apply the brakes to get some oil to the pivot points
the oil i use is the muck off c3 ceramic lube

pivot point of the brake lever only?
(if you're not cleaning or lubing the ratchet mechanism then that's a good thing)

only time i've had the downshift (small lever) not click is when i needed to clean out and regrease the ratchet mechanism - used WD40 then some motorcycle chain wax (sprayable). did the trick for me - hence me wondering if you'd cleaned the grease out of the mechanism

dgunthor

the other thing you could try is disconnecting the cable from the front mech to ensure the shifter works ok on it's own i.e. does all the clicks up and down (if it's working properly then it's the setup of the cable/mech that is the issue)

photonic69

You need some tension on the cable for it to shift down to a smaller ring/cog. Perhaps the cable or the FD is snagging somewhere? Pull the cable outwards away from the down tube whilst trying to shift (dont try this whilst riding) to see if it clicks down.

Bobbinogs

dgunthor wrote:

the other thing you could try is disconnecting the cable from the front mech to ensure the shifter works ok on it's own i.e. does all the clicks up and down (if it's working properly then it's the setup of the cable/mech that is the issue)

yes, good idea albeit I don't think the OP should start by disconnecting the FD cable as that will mean it needs setting up again which can take a little while.

If there isn't enough slack on the cable (because it gets stuck somewhere or the FD is not moving) then the shifter mech won't move enough to click into position so be careful you are not seeing a symptom and confusing it with the cause. If you have a Missing Link on the chain then I would drop the chain off and try the shifter a good few times to see if you can replicate the issue and then trace where it might be going wrong which could be the shifter, the FD or the cable run. I would use a little light lube under the BB guide as that can often get fouled up causing erratic shifting (particularly RD although that isn't the problem here). No need for fancy lube or grease there just something lighter than grease, like multi-oil, etc.

If you have no joy then try removing the cable completely and checking for any obvious frays or snags, particularly in the areas you cannot see (in the outer covers, etc.). A little light lube works well before replacing.

Don't forget to also apply a little light lube to the FD, particularly the bits that move, again though, no need for anything fancy.

Ref lubing the pivot points, if you have only done 300 dry miles then I would just stay clear of regularly cleaning/lubing the shifters altogether as it can often cause more problems than solve.

Once you work out the problem area then cost effective solutions can be discussed...

ashtec

Hi and thanks for your replies
If just got in from walking the mut so will go and attack the bike soon and give your advice a try. Ile post my findings soon

Bobbinogs

mmm, the only problem is that I have reread your amended post and see that the issue is shifting down on the FD which means that achieving enough cable movement to hit the ratchet point won't apply as that is a shifting up issue

Probably makes it more likely to be a shifter issue but I would still lose the chain somehow and then try to reproduce the problem in situ. Best of luck.

doug5_10

10 quid the cable is frayed in the shifter. . .

ashtec

ok hear goes.
i set the bike up on the stand removed the chain just to give full Clarence for when im trying the full movement of the FD,,, operate the large lever to pull the cable and move the FD to the large gear on the crank that always fork fine but then i go for the small lever to release the the cable to move the FD down to the smaller cog and as always no feed back from smaller lever, so i work the small lever in its full movement and sliding my finger off to let it ping back to its neutral position a fue times it starts working catches on to the mechanism and works as it should allowing the FD to move down to the smaller cog.

i did pull the outer cable from the clip on the frame slid the outer cable down the inner cable to allow inspection and no frayed cable so all good there checked around under the bottom bracket and the cable is all good there, i thought it would be as i did do the grease on a rag tip to water proof the cables not too long after getting the bike,, while the cable was loose i checked the FD for smoothness of movement and it was also good no sticky points and good spring pressure across the full movement,

so i reassembled the cable worked it all and its been good for now i did notice that when the FD is on the small cog position there was some slack in the cable so ive adjusted the cable to just lifted the FD off the stop screw then backed it off till it reseated it feels a bit more positive or im just hoping haha
ile leave it over night and try again tomorrow

Bobbinogs

OK, good stuff for having a crack but I can't see how we can expect it now to work perfectly given the very minor adjustment (although I would love to be proved wrong).

I would settle myself down and do some more work that means going back a few steps in order to go forwards. I think it is time that you faced setting up the FD properly from scratch and, as part of that, you should be able to find the actual issue (or get very good at setting up the FD ).

I would:
Lose the chain
Disconnect the FD cable and completely remove it to check that there are no snags/frays, etc., along the complete path. Put the cable to one side being careful to ensure that the end does not become frayed.

Then, check the LH shifter thoroughly. With the shifter in the 'Big' mode, it should clearly click twice to drop to the 'Little' mode. The first click is the trim feature, the second click is the shift. You should be able to repeat the clicking up and down many times without any issue. If you have an issue then the shifter could well be the problem (I bought a good condition 4501 off ebay for about £30 last year, btw).

If the shifter is fine then I would carefully re-thread the cable and go for resetting the FD using something like the following:

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... djustments

Be nice and thorough as this will be rewarded in use.

At the end of all that you should be in a clearer position, or at least have a clearer understanding of how to setup your bike. If the issue is still there then an easy option would be to buy a cheap SH shifter, fit a new cable too, setup the FD and see if the problem goes away. You can always flog SH Tiagra on ebay for roughly the same price you bought it for (as long as you don't bid stupid when buying) so you won't have lost out and your experience from setting up the FD first time around will make this an easy task.