Training for Ironman 70.3 bike leg

ai_1

I'm signed up for an Ironman 70.3 in August and after a disastrous spring of illness and then my first running injury in 3 years I'm now a couple of weeks into concerted training for the event. I'm a stronger cyclist than runner, and so far, a terrible swimmer. My intention is to survive the swim, put in a respectable ride and then see what I can do in the run. I'm likely going to be targeting a time somewhere around 6hrs 30mins although I still have hopes of doing better.

Anyway, I've converted my old Tricross into a Tri-bike of sorts with a forward offset seatpost and tri-bars. It's heavy but comfortable and means I still have my road bike for group rides. I've done several duathlons and adventure races before, and plenty sportives but no triathlons and haven't used tri-bars until recently. My plan is to use the tri-bike for 2 mid week rides of 30km-60km and the road bike for one longer ride each weekend, typically 70km-100km, with one or two longer rides in sportives, max 140km.
The mid week rides will typically be medium to high intensity, with the weekend rides a little easier and I may replace some of the mid week rides with turbo based intervals.

So, eventually to my question!
How do most people approach long rides in the TT/Tri position? The bike leg in the race will be 90km but I plan to do most of my preparatory long rides on the road bike in a very different position. The "Tri-bike" has a considerably further forward saddle position and of course the very different upper body posture. I'm hoping the shorter mid-week rides on the "tri-bike" will be adequate preparation and then I'll do a couple of longer ~90km rides on the "tri-bike" between 3 and 5 weeks out from the race to ensure I can manage to hold the position for most of the distance and test food and drink strategy.
I really don't want to switch entirely to the tri-bike until quite close to the event but just wondering what the normal practice is.

Incidentally 3 rides a week is probably the most I can manage given I plan to fit in 3 runs and 2 or 3 swims each week as well.


P.S.
Wasn't there a triathlon forum in the Road section previously. I'd have put this thread in there if I could find it!

Monty Dog

Simply putting tri-bars on won't make much difference unless you adapt your position to get more aero and spend some hours in that position to get your muscles used to it. You need to try at least to do your 'distance' rides on tri-bars - the position is quite different and you'll need to get used to the handling of the bike due to the different weight distribution. Learning to lean and taking bends at speed whilst in the tuck takes practise, otherwise you'll probably crash.

jgsi

I'd probably post on Slowtwitch.. the Tri forum bit does seem to have been retired on BR.
Hoping your bike leg is flat!

lochindaal

You need to do a lot more training on your tri bike. What you are underestimating is the effect your position will have on different muscles that will have a knock on effect on your run.

ai_1

Monty Dog wrote:

Simply putting tri-bars on won't make much difference unless you adapt your position to get more aero and spend some hours in that position to get your muscles used to it...

I realise that. I haven't simply put tr-bars on. I've switched seatposts to bring the saddle way forward and up, I switched stems to get the reach right and I've switched to an Adamo saddle as the previous one wouldn't allow me stay in a tuck without discomfort. I don't have a terribly low position because I'm aiming for a 3hr ride, have a slightly stiff neck and know I won't be able to sustain a really aggressive position that long. I think I have the set-up about right. I wasn't expecting earth shattering speed increases between this and the standard road bike but on flatish routes I've been surprised how much of a difference it's made. From my experiences over the past 3 weeks I reckon I'm at least 2km/h faster on average for similar effort. I might well get a proper tri-bike in the long run, this is an initial experiment and is going very well so far.

Monty Dog wrote:

...You need to try at least to do your 'distance' rides on tri-bars - the position is quite different and you'll need to get used to the handling of the bike due to the different weight distribution. Learning to lean and taking bends at speed whilst in the tuck takes practise, otherwise you'll probably crash.

I've started out with the shorter mid-week rides on the tri-bike to give me a chance to adapt, which thankfully is going better than I anticipated. My longest to date being 54km with about 85% of it on the extensions. I certainly don't think it's simply a case of slapping on the tri-bars and going faster. The bike handles reasonably well, though worse, I'm sure, than a purpose designed tri-bike. I suspect the long wheelbase of the cyclocross based Tricross has helped with that.

JGSI wrote:

I'd probably post on Slowtwitch.. the Tri forum bit does seem to have been retired on BR.
Hoping your bike leg is flat!

Thanks, I may do that.
The bike leg is fairly flat. Some minor gradients but nothing that constitutes a proper climb.

ai_1

lochindaal wrote:

You need to do a lot more training on your tri bike. What you are underestimating is the effect your position will have on different muscles that will have a knock on effect on your run.

I've done a couple of Brick sessions already and I've been very happy to find that it's much easier to run off the tri-bike than it is off the road bike. However, that was after only a 30km hard ride. 90km may be a very different proposition.

What do you mean by "a lot more training on your tri-bike"? As in more rides per week, or similar volume to what i described but more of it on the tri-bike?

napoleond

Train on what you will race.
A lot.

cougie

+1 for what Nap says.

The amount of people you see doing triathlon and unable to ride on the tri bars is amazing.

ai_1

cougie wrote:

+1 for what Nap says.

The amount of people you see doing triathlon and unable to ride on the tri bars is amazing.

Yep, I've seen that myself and I have no intention of joining them!

I've an Olympic distance triathlon at the end of this month. it'll be my first triathlon and I'm not looking forward to it! 4 weeks away and I still can't swim 1500m nor do I have any significant experience in open water with the wetsuit. I've already done rides longer than the 40km Olympinc bike leg staying mostly on the extensions and the run shouldn't be a problem so if I can survive the swim I should enjoy the rest of it.

I think I'll stick with the road bike for the long weekend rides until after the Olympic Tri, especially as some of them are sportives I've signed up for which, quite rightly, won't allow extensions. Then, perhaps I should start using the tri-bike for long weekend rides which will give me several weeks to raise my endurance on the extensions from 55km to 90km. As it stands my neck seems to be the only problem. My forearms and shoulders get a little uncomfortable after an hour or so but I think that's improving. My neck is a bit stiff from an old injury and doesn't like looking forward from the aero position. It's been getting achy and I suspect it may become a problem as I extend rides in the extensions beyond 2hrs. On the other hand I might adapt to it somewhat. Only one way to find out.

lochindaal

What do you mean by "a lot more training on your tri-bike"? As in more rides per week, or similar volume to what i described but more of it on the tri-bike?

Similar volume but all done on your tri bike. The long ride needs to be on your tri bike. This is where specificity comes into your training or has been said already in simpler terms "train on what you race". If you had a longer build up you could have done more longer base work on your road bike but with your time line I would look to start now.

If you want a break from the tri bike or a more social ride then do that on one of your shorter ones.

Not sure on your post of your tri background but at any distance the important thing in the run is how long can you hold your good form at the pace you want to go. Those who can keep it together longer are more efficient and therefore faster (or in longer races actually finish).

Holding a TT position for 3 hours+ will inhibit hip flexors and hamstrings that you then want to use on your run. If they are not conditioned for it you will suffer at some point in your run, you just want that to happen at 20km not 5km!

lochindaal

We replied at the same time so hadn't seen your tri experience, now I have.

You are going to come out the swim probably tired. You've said you are a terrible swimmer and you've never done the distance before so lets guess at 45mins before you even get on the bike.

You will then go from a straight body position into crunched up on your tri bars. If you hold your position you won't be stretching potentially as you could do on a road bike. Next you are going to straighten up again to try and run well after about 4 hours+ of previous exercise. This is why the run is demanding to hold good form for another 2hrs.

It can be done in the timeframe but don't get too focused on being a strong biker and thinking that will see you through. If you go too hard on the bike to chase time you will probably lose it on the run. Think of your pacing over the whole race.

ai_1

@Iochindaal

Thanks for the observations and suggestions. I'll give that some thought.
I'm familiar with the impact of switching between cycling and running (& kayaking) from duathlons and adventure races but have always done those on the road bike and I've no experience going from the swim to the bike so that'll be interesting! Hopefully the olympic distance triathlon will give me a good intro.
I'm comfortable enough running 1/2 marathon distance as a standalone and was nearly ready to run a marathon 3 weeks ago but suffered a minor injury 3 weeks out from the race so that never happened. I will be doing some core strength training and I'm hoping the swimming will help a bit with that too.

My aims for the next few weeks are:
1. Become a competent swimmer
2. Build running distance back up after enforced break in running.
3. get strong on the bike and adapt to aero position

No 1 is a matter of getting to the pool 3 times a week and remembering how to swim and getting back my upper body strength (I used to swim and kayak as a kid and upper body strength was always good until I hit my 30s).

No 2 needs to be gradual or I'll risk re-injury. My range is back to 10km so far but I won't be doing more than 30km a week until June.

No 3 is where I think I can fairly easily improve without risk of injury or having to get to the pool. Also, more time spent on the bike should, hopefully, mean I can get to the run in better shape, as long as I pace it alright. Thankfully pacing is usually one of my strengths. Getting closer to the event once I've got a solid running base again I'll spread my efforts more evenly.

simon_masterson

Make sure you don't have your weight too far forward - it won't help comfort or handling. Obviously you need to be able to manage the distance, but definitely look into the aero aspect as well - otherwise you've little to gain by bothering/might be better off on the drops. Beyond that, you just need to spend lots of time on that bike... Good luck!

ai_1

Simon Masterson wrote:

Make sure you don't have your weight too far forward - it won't help comfort or handling. Obviously you need to be able to manage the distance, but definitely look into the aero aspect as well - otherwise you've little to gain by bothering/might be better off on the drops. Beyond that, you just need to spend lots of time on that bike... Good luck!

Thanks Simon!
The current forward position does put a bit of weight on my arms but I don't think it's excessive. My back and legs are actually feeling very comfortable in that position. My shoulders and neck are the only concern at the moment.
I think handling seems okay. I'm sure a purpose built tri-bike would be better but it's very stable in a straight line and takes open corners fine. I've been getting onto the hoods or drops for any tight corners and will continue to do so. The mass distribution is probably a bit too far forward but I haven't noticed any bad habits as a result. One advantage of the narrow Adamo Attack saddle is that while I normally sit quite far forward on it as is usual for this type of saddle, it's also easy enough to shift further back on the saddle if I wanted to temporarily adopt a more road bike like position, say for hard braking or cornering. The proposed route for the race consists of mostly straight and relatively level roads. There are no particularly significant gradients that I'm aware of. I'll scout the route in the near future to be sure. If it was very hilly, I'd probably use the road bike...but it's not

cgfw201

Had my first sprint Tri yesterday. Just a 20km cycle, but I'm another advocate of the "Ride in Tri position as much as possible in practice" brigade above. Had used my tri-bars a number of times, bike handling and speed was fine but hadn't done half an hour constantly on them, my bo!!0cks weren't happy at all.

ai_1

cgfw201 wrote:

Had my first sprint Tri yesterday. Just a 20km cycle, but I'm another advocate of the "Ride in Tri position as much as possible in practice" brigade above. Had used my tri-bars a number of times, bike handling and speed was fine but hadn't done half an hour constantly on them, my bo!!0cks weren't happy at all.

I'd highly recommend an Adamo ISM saddle to address that issue if you plan to do more!
They take a couple of weeks to get used to due to being completely different to conventional saddles. It's like when you started riding in the first place (if you started as an adult) and had to adapt for a few weeks before the saddle became comfortable. You'll probably hate it for 2 to 3 weeks and then it will magically transform into a wonderfully comfortable place to sit....well that was my experience. I'm optimistic about the saddle area but I do need to do long rides to find out how my shoulders and neck will hold up and to confirm everything else.

ai_1

Just thought I'd come back and let you know how I got on in the end.

In short, I had a great race.
I didn't do a massive volume of long rides on the extensions but I got 5 or 6 rides of 60-90km done in the last 6 weeks and did some shorter brick sessions and it seems to have been enough. I got very comfortable in that position, found it much easier to run after a ride than when using the road bike and was able to stay on the extensions for the entire 90km with the exception of some tight turns and a couple of short climbs when my speed got low enough that they were no benefit.
The olympic distance race at the end of May went really well and I started getting more optimistic about the 70.3. When I wrote the earlier posts I thought 6hrs 30mins was about what I could hope for. I revised that estimate as the race approached and reckoned I should manage 6hrs 10mins and might get close to 6hrs if I had a good race. I managed 5hrs 50mins on the day. Hardly an impressive performance in the grand scheme of things but I was delighted with it! I averaged about 31km/h for the ride which I was very happy with too.

I've signed up for a full distance Ironman next year now. Time to buy a full on tri-bike and do lots more riding. I'm considering a Felt IA16 but I reckon I'd need to get a lot faster if I don't want to look very over-biked on that!