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Worlds / World Tour classic course?

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  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    I even started mine in a town friendly spot (outside Sheffield train station)

    I thought of the riders. An even narrower descent into town and a sprint on a main street that's 10m wide and only 200m long? Imagine what Cancellara would say?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

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  • Yellow PerilYellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    +1 for IOM despite never having been there i imagine having the Worlds TT on the mountain TT course would be mega think Pete Kennaugh has record with 1.20 something? so be a bit longer than most TTs too but there is probably a UCI rule that determines the distance

    Boardman is still King of the Ring for the Mountain Course
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    I even started mine in a town friendly spot (outside Sheffield train station)

    I thought of the riders. An even narrower descent into town and a sprint on a main street that's 10m wide and only 200m long? Imagine what Cancellara would say?

    Ah, I thought of that too.

    You'll see.

    Ride up on narrow roads - down on main a roads. ;).
  • EKIMIKEEKIMIKE Posts: 2,232
    Pross wrote:
    Getting a 20km circuit with a start and finish in a decent sized town is tricky especially when taking logistics of road closures into consideration. Plymouth or Exeter taking in part of Dartmoor might work but even then it would probably need a larger loop. As Iain said Bristol and Bath have options. Bristol with a route up Park Street, through Clifton, over the suspension bridge, through Ashton Court then up over the top of Bedminster. Finish could either be at College Green or outside the Hippodrome. They could even go around Welsh Back for a bit of 'pave' action. George Ferguson likes closing the city's roads too so good for that as well.

    Pross wrote:
    Actually from Ashton Court back out onto the port way, under the suspension bridge and up Bridge Valley Road. Then over the Downs drop down into the centre through Redland or something. That would be a great circuit.

    It would be nice to go over the suspension brudge but they'd have to rip out all the toll furniture. Bridge Valley Road, up to the downs proved to be a good finish in many ways - the racing itself with the winding flat finish after the hill sprint effort, the hill can take loads of spectators without being dangerous, the downs provides all the space needed for the logistics side of things.

    There are some good lumps in Stoke Bishop too, which would make for a testing circuit. You'd want to avoid taking it out to Avonmouth (industrial and grotty).

    You could have an 18km circuit that takes you from the downs, through Stoke Bishop (one short sharp dink, followed by a longer but still relatively small hill that would be a good launch pad for attacks). Down towards Henbury but turn back to Shirehampton (via Lawrence Weston) before you get there. Out onto the Portway (A4) back to Bridge Valley Road and up on to the downs. Just over 300 metres of climbing according to BikeHike.

    A4/Portway would be the only 'main' road. Rest of it is through residential suburbs.

    Start them off in Bath, take them over the mendips and the many short hills south of Bristol (maybe Dundry :twisted:) before bringing them on to the circuit.

    However I think Bath would offer something nicer on the eye and equally, if not more hilly. You'd kind of have to shut the whole city down though. Bath only just copes with normal traffic as it is.
  • sheffsimonsheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    I've always thought you could make a cracking circuit around the Matlock and Bakewell areas - it'd probably mean using the A6 at some point so I dare say a complete non-starter but purely in terms of a race circuit there is everything you could wish for, there are a couple of reasonable sized towns there to go through too and for such a scenic area a reasonable density of roads so fans could access the course without trekking miles on foot. You've also got a massive catchment area in Manchester, Sheffield and South Yorks, Nottm, Derby and Stoke all within a bike ride.

    Already been done, the sadly defunct Whitworth Show Road Race.....with a fourth place from yours truly in 1988....:) Don't think it was at WT level though, more like 2/3/J....
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,946
    I even started mine in a town friendly spot (outside Sheffield train station)

    I thought of the riders. An even narrower descent into town and a sprint on a main street that's 10m wide and only 200m long? Imagine what Cancellara would say?

    Ah, I thought of that too.

    You'll see.

    Ride up on narrow roads - down on main a roads. ;).

    I think you've either gone out through Broomhill to near Stocksbridge and back down Pensitone Road, or up through Hunters Bar to Crosspool and back through Abbeydale, but that's a really rough guess
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    I think you've either gone out through Broomhill to near Stocksbridge and back down Pensitone Road, or up through Hunters Bar to Crosspool and back through Abbeydale, but that's a really rough guess
    Penistone Rd would be a bit difficult with the tram tracks there. (West) Sheffield has the perfect terrain, but not many places with enough open space required for all finish line infrastructure. And the tramlines often are a bit of an obstacle.
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,946
    I've got the scars on my knees to atone for the trickiness of the tram tracks. You could avoid them slightly by cutting across Leppings Lane.

    Agree about West Sheffield, there's some great little roads around Millhouses and Endcliffe Parks
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    OK, here's my (revised) attempt. https://www.strava.com/routes/2282396

    Consider it a first draft.

    Naturally, since it's a fan's course, it's ridiculously brutal, with 700m of climbing in 28km, including one 25+% section, (strava calls it 30%) with two other hills that have double digit sections. Call it 9 laps at 252km.

    Fairly sure I've avoided the trams and used the wider roads for descents, but it was 5 years since I was last there!

    Start/Finish is at the station, which has enough room at the front and around for the paraphernalia IIRC.

    Let me know your thoughts and I'll adjust accordingly.
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Let me know your thoughts and I'll adjust accordingly.

    What, are we submitting this to the UCI as the forum's suggestion for a World's course?

    A good effort. I like the small kick up to the finish line. Personally I think there's a tad too much climbing. I'd like to keep the chunkier puncheurs interested.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    A tad?

    Bahaha, it's 6,300m of climbing, significant portions of which are over 10%, including a 30% section!!
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    :lol:
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    OK, here's my (revised) attempt. https://www.strava.com/routes/2282396

    Consider it a first draft.

    Naturally, since it's a fan's course, it's ridiculously brutal, with 700m of climbing in 28km, including one 25+% section, (strava calls it 30%) with two other hills that have double digit sections. Call it 9 laps at 252km.

    Fairly sure I've avoided the trams and used the wider roads for descents, but it was 5 years since I was last there!

    Start/Finish is at the station, which has enough room at the front and around for the paraphernalia IIRC.

    Let me know your thoughts and I'll adjust accordingly.
    Wow. Would love the Worlds to come to Sheffield with that route. Would be a spectacle.
    It's a bit too brutal though - either Hagg Hill or Lodge Lane would make for one of the most brutal courses of the last decades, but both? They're not 25% (or more) though, more like consistently between 10 and 20% for a mile or so.
    Not sure Cancellara would aprove of the Rivelin Bank descent - ca 20% on a very narrow road. At least it would get those streets tarmacced :lol: .
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    Haha ok, will adjust the tricky descent.

    Will keep Hagg and Lodge in for now.

    https://www.strava.com/routes/2282396

    OK adjusted
  • cal_stewartcal_stewart Posts: 1,840
    See what Stockton does for the nationals, start and finish in stockton with the lap around stokesley up carlton bank and down clay bank.
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    It's fairly technical descending too, though hopefully not too dangerous.

    Edit: so it's now 25.4km with 655m of climbing.

    So 10 laps with 6,550 of climbing....
  • hammeritehammerite Posts: 3,408
    It's fairly technical descending too, though hopefully not too dangerous.

    Edit: so it's now 25.4km with 655m of climbing.

    So 10 laps with 6,550 of climbing....

    Could do 100km elsewhere before hitting your tough finishing circuit. Gives the "lesser nations" a bit more of an incentive to get a rider in the break before the hell begins.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    Yeah. Not a bad shout.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 22,949
    Too hard!

    for PTP I'd go for Degenkolb...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • sheffsimonsheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    It's fairly technical descending too, though hopefully not too dangerous.

    Edit: so it's now 25.4km with 655m of climbing.

    So 10 laps with 6,550 of climbing....

    I like it, because it's 5 minutes walk from my house :)

    Not sure about the descent down Brincliffe Edge though...
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    Happy to take suggestions for alternatives.

    Finding decent descents is a tricky business in Sheffield.
  • ellerslierdellerslierd Posts: 266
    Here's my Bath one for you all (Ignoring the prospect of shutting the whole city down for a week). I have included boring flat bits as otherwise it would be all too difficult, a loop around the Mendips via Cheddar and Burrington Combe would be a nice prelude:

    https://www.strava.com/routes/2270971

    Starting on Great Pultney Street and crossing Pultney Bridge before a lap of the Guildhall passing the Abbey. The city centre feel continues, twisting up and round onto Royal Avenue (start of the Tour of Britain stage last year and this year's Tour Series round). A boring run through the more industrial West side of town to seek out the only flat road in Bath on Lower Bristol Rd before turning back towards the city and the very short little punch up Old Newbridge Hill and into Weston.

    After passing the North side of Royal Victoria Park, a sharp right-left down Marlborough Buildings and onto the 300m cobbles of The Royal Crescent (one for the photographers). After passing The Circus and out onto the London Road for another flat run out of town.

    After leaving the city a right turn in Batheaston takes the riders down and over the narrow toll bridge at Bathampton Mill and then the climbing begins. A false flat up to the humpback bridge and over the canal continues through Bathampton Village and up onto the Warminster Road. A short, fast descent with good views over the city immediately turns left and onto North Road.

    One of the easier hills in Bath, it is steepest at the bottom and gives way to more of a false flat once you pass the Golf Club but continues for at least another kilometre past the university. It does have excellent sightlines over the whole city and the top half feels rural compared to many of the other climbs.

    3 km of false flats next on top of Claverton Down past Prior Park College (you could add the newly refurbished 1.5km gravel bridleway across from the uni to the college if you wanted another gimmick) and then a right turn onto one of the best descents in the country down Ralph Allen Drive. Fast and gently winding, with a predictable gradient and surface the whole way down.

    This spits you out into Widcombe village with 2km to the finish, before the misleading false flat up Pultney Road to the Holbourne Museum. A sharp left takes you back onto Great Pultney Street.

    The Rec can be used for the paraphernalia.
  • Dorset_BoyDorset_Boy Posts: 4,217
    Your Bath one sounds good, especially if combined with a trip out into the lumpy countryside before hitting the circuit.
  • johnboy183johnboy183 Posts: 814
    Is the course being designed with what we we would like to see as a spectator? Or should it be designed for a winner that we'd like to see? Thinking patriotically here for a kennaugh win, or better yet, another Cav. And how about a tt course for Wiggo or Dowsett?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    johnboy183 wrote:
    Is the course being designed with what we we would like to see as a spectator? Or should it be designed for a winner that we'd like to see? Thinking patriotically here for a kennaugh win, or better yet, another Cav. And how about a tt course for Wiggo or Dowsett?

    If I was a more invasive mod I'd ban all nationalist chat in pro-race. (luckily for you I'm not)

    The forum was a better place in the mid '00s when there were no (or exceptionally few) Brits in the Tour at all. It was just a bit purer then.

    So no, I'm just thinking of a course I'd get ridiculously excited about. So part vicinity, part being on roads I have ridden & think would make a fun course and part me seeing how ludicrous I can make a worlds course & finding the line of what is ludicrous and what course would make for good racing.
  • ellerslierdellerslierd Posts: 266
    part me seeing how ludicrous I can make a worlds course

    If I'd known that then I would have come up with something altogether more "spiky" !!
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 56,697 Lives Here
    feel free.
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    OK, I'll have a go. But can't decide. This...

    https://www.strava.com/routes/2288037

    Or this...

    https://www.strava.com/routes/2288080

    :D
  • johnboy183johnboy183 Posts: 814
    johnboy183 wrote:
    Is the course being designed with what we we would like to see as a spectator? Or should it be designed for a winner that we'd like to see? Thinking patriotically here for a kennaugh win, or better yet, another Cav. And how about a tt course for Wiggo or Dowsett?

    If I was a more invasive mod I'd ban all nationalist chat in pro-race. (luckily for you I'm not)

    The forum was a better place in the mid '00s when there were no (or exceptionally few) Brits in the Tour at all. It was just a bit purer then.

    So no, I'm just thinking of a course I'd get ridiculously excited about. So part vicinity, part being on roads I have ridden & think would make a fun course and part me seeing how ludicrous I can make a worlds course & finding the line of what is ludicrous and what course would make for good racing.

    Not having been around in the 00's, I'm glad that we have enough top class Brits to perhaps ruffle your feathers :lol::mrgreen:
  • Mad_MalxMad_Malx Posts: 4,348
    Here's my Bath one for you all (Ignoring the prospect of shutting the whole city down for a week). I have included boring flat bits as otherwise it would be all too difficult, a loop around the Mendips via Cheddar and Burrington Combe would be a nice prelude:

    https://www.strava.com/routes/2270971

    Starting on Great Pultney Street and crossing Pultney Bridge before a lap of the Guildhall passing the Abbey. The city centre feel continues, twisting up and round onto Royal Avenue (start of the Tour of Britain stage last year and this year's Tour Series round). A boring run through the more industrial West side of town to seek out the only flat road in Bath on Lower Bristol Rd before turning back towards the city and the very short little punch up Old Newbridge Hill and into Weston.

    After passing the North side of Royal Victoria Park, a sharp right-left down Marlborough Buildings and onto the 300m cobbles of The Royal Crescent (one for the photographers). After passing The Circus and out onto the London Road for another flat run out of town.

    After leaving the city a right turn in Batheaston takes the riders down and over the narrow toll bridge at Bathampton Mill and then the climbing begins. A false flat up to the humpback bridge and over the canal continues through Bathampton Village and up onto the Warminster Road.

    I'd take them South here and up Brassknocker, just for the pleasure of seeing them do my daily grind, but too selective for laps on the WC.
    Tour of Britain circa 1990 did this bit with (I think) Robert Millar showing them how to do it. Then went down Bathwick Hill before Malcolm Elliot took the stage on Pulteny Street. Some grainy footage on YouTube.
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