Have specialized priced themselves out of the market.

foy

For a number of years now the specialized brand has been way overpriced compared to the competition and now they are doing a 20% discount on bikes which has been going on for almost a month which is very unusual for the brand at this time of the year.

kajjal

All the people that will pay full price have stopped so they are having a fake sale at the price the bikes should have been in the first price. There are a lot of other choices in the UK apart from the big brands unless you are very tall.

paul.skibum

foy wrote:

For a number of years now the specialized brand has been way overpriced compared to the competition and now they are doing a 20% discount on bikes which has been going on for almost a month which is very unusual for the brand.

What is it with you and Specialized?!

njee20

No, they've not. They're among the biggest bike brands on the planet. Stupid statement.

They often do these sales, you could argue it's because they're too expensive in the first place, but they still sell thousands of bikes.

How many threads are you going to start, asking this question!?

rockmonkeysc

They are still selling plenty of them because they make some brilliant bike, they have an excellent warranty and they are seen as a premium brand by some people.
They are expensive but still cheaper than brands like Yeti, Santa Cruz, Intense and Transition and just as good.
The Stumpjumper 29 evo, enduro 29 and camber evo are some of the best riding bikes on the market. Sometimes it's about more than just shiny components.

The Rookie

The problem (for me) isnt with the higher ends bikes where £100 here or there makes little difference to value, its the lower end (Lardrock and 'hopper) where they are grossly overpriced, the name then gets them sales to people who don't know better.

We recently had a young lady join our club rides on an XCT fork equipped 29er, she struggled as the darn thing must have weighed pushing 16.5Kg, the rest of us had to help her lift it over a couple of gates as it was simply too heavy for her, the effect on the riding experience would be enough to put many people off staying with the sport. Hers is now for sale and she's getting (or now got) a cheaper but much better Bizango, the Spesh 'sale' value of course hasn't helped the resale price.

rockmonkeysc

The hardrock and rockhopper cost specialized bugger all to make and sell in huge numbers and make huge profits. Why would they change that?

russyh

Grossly overpriced, but sell in droves. So meet with what the market would seem it wants. Given that most of the hard rocks etc will be ridden around the park with the kids, they are probably excellently spec'd!

It would surprise me that someone looking at getting into mountain biking would not read reviews or even look online prior to buying a bike. Plenty of reviews on the net and magazines recommending cheaper, better bikes.

The Rookie

It may well surprise you but it's true.

I'm in the motor industry, 2/3 of private car buyers don't take a test drive, so only the same principle really, Giant are toy be congratulated on their test-ride programme, but whether it will have any effect at this market segment I don't know.

russyh

That may well be true in private purchase, but I can assure you it's not in the main dealer world or even used car world. I also work in the motortrade. Have done for a long time and my company supply the dealership software systems which monitor sales diary management systems. I don't know the stat off hand but from my time working in the retail side of the business test drives would happen in 9/10 cases. I can find out the stats easy enough.
As the motortrade has moved forward more people are making their choice before arriving at the dealership. I don't see why that would be much different in the bike world. There are plenty of excellent resources to help make informed decisions.

Clockworkmark31

Depends on how you look at it. I had a 2012 rockhopper comp and although the spec wasn't great I loved the way how it handled and upgraded to the tune of of 1.5x more than the original purchase cost.

You could argue I should have bought a better spec bike from the start.

But having got back in to the sport on a budget it was and still is in my choice the best option.

As you get more confidence you learn what you like and dislike and upgrade appropriately.

I would argue that they provide an excellent base on which you can further improve.

Would I go down this route again, yes!

rockmonkeysc

The Rockhopper and Hardrock frames are both very average. A bit of a harsh ride. At this price range there is very little in it between frames. It's all about components on budget bikes.
Changing the frame can cost less than changing a fork

Clockworkmark31

Don't want to enter in to an argument here.

But from my experience the rockhopper I had encouraged it to be thrashed, and when I reached the limits I changed components. Then I would have a new base line on which to judge the frame.

Yes I agree maybe a different brand frame or higher spec frame would have had a different approach.

But it is all personal preference, I am using a newer frame and components to what I had previously which should be better. But still I am comparing it to what I have had.

I think if you have a decent frameset to start with then surely anything you can do to improve this is a step in the right direction.

I would love to go and pick a bike from the shelf that suits my needs and falls within my budget. But the way of the land doesn't allow this.

Also as I have a new bike "that is currently outdated" how could I change the frame from a 1/1.8th to the new standard.

For my situation I will warrant the upgrades and say it is cheaper than replacing the bike or frame.

The Rookie

You think? Labour costs in Europe vastly outweigh any advantage over the import duty from Taiwan, which is why most the good value bikes come from Taiwan, the most price competitive British assembled bikes are still lumbered with the duty on all the components (including the usually Taiwanese frame) so usually have to pitch a bit further up the price scale (starting from circa £650 ish) to be able to be competitive enough on value versus specification for the design benefits to tip the balance, thinking Bird and On-one here.

The Rookie

No, if it comes in as a complete bike its the full duty, a manufacturer wouldn't get away with listing it as parts for very long and it simply wouldn't be worth it given the level of fines when caught, after all a bike box is pretty obviously a bike!

oodboo

paul.skibum wrote:

foy wrote:

For a number of years now the specialized brand has been way overpriced compared to the competition and now they are doing a 20% discount on bikes which has been going on for almost a month which is very unusual for the brand.

What is it with you and Specialized?!

This ^^

Have you got some personal vendetta against Specialized or something?

If you think they're over priced then don't buy one. Simples.

Giraffoto

foy wrote:

Have Specialized priced themselves out of the market?

Evidently not, I bought one a couple of months ago. Why do you have a particular thing about Specialized? How are they so different from Giant, Trek, Scott or BMC, to name but a few?

rockmonkeysc

Specialized aren't cheap but they are far from the most expensive.
Personally I think Specialized's full suspension frames are just as good as Santa Cruz and better than Intense and they are cheaper than both by quite a lot.

njee20

Are they? An S-Works frame is £3000, isn't that on par with SC?

rockmonkeysc

True but compare complete builds, especially the alloy bikes and Specialized are much better value.
They beat Intense by making their frames straight.

The Rookie

If that is the case (I'm not convinced) then no bike has duty on it as a full bike, so again your argued benefit is blown away.....try again!

rockmonkeysc

So why are Orange bikes even more expensive than Specialized?

swod1

RockmonkeySC wrote:

So why are Orange bikes even more expensive than Specialized?

Because there a premium bike brand? Hand built in the UK?

specialized are a bigger brand than orange so I guess bound to cost less but do agree orange are overpriced now you can get great deals from rose, canyon and radon German bikes.

rockmonkeysc

Even Giant are pretty reasonable value.
Over here Nukeproof are pretty good value while Santa Cruz are very expensive. Over in North America it's the other way around.

russyh

They are more expensive in the U.S. As they have a special logo and sticker tax. Given that nuke proof cover their bikes in a million logos that's the only logical explanation.

cooldad

cyd190468 wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

If that is the case (I'm not convinced) then no bike has duty on it as a full bike, so again your argued benefit is blown away.....try again!

Foreign manufacturers could only get away with it if the dealers were part of the company. If a specialized bike was shipped to an LBS as parts and they "manufactured" it they wouldn't be able to call it a Specialized unless they did some sort of deal to use the name. It would also cause problems with warranty as the LBS would be the manufacturer and therefore responsible for warranty. There's nothing to stop an LBS importing frames and building them up if there's nothing proprietary on the bikes. You just can't use the model name. Although lots of manufacturers don't sell frames these days.

So er um ok. And your point is?

The Rookie

But by your definition they aren't complete as the wheels aren't on it, so again, what was your point?

The Rookie

Just checked, a complete bike is a complete bike in terms of duty whether the wheels are on or off, it would have to be imported as separately packaged parts to afford the complete bike duty.

njee20

The duty strikes me a massive red herring, and I have no idea whatsoever what cyd3494235908348576890565490845 is trying to say.

rockmonkeysc

The Rookie wrote:

But by your definition they aren't complete as the wheels aren't on it, so again, what was your point?

The manufacturer declares to customs that it is a complete bike and therefore pays the duty for a complete bike no matter what state of assembly the bike in the box is in.

The Rookie

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

But by your definition they aren't complete as the wheels aren't on it, so again, what was your point?

The manufacturer declares to customs that it is a complete bike and therefore pays the duty for a complete bike no matter what state of assembly the bike in the box is in.

I know this, cyd seems in total denial.

There is no import code for an unassembled bike anyway!