Overzealous (stupid/expensive) cassette lockring tightening

superkenners

I was fitting a new 11 speed cassette after upgrading hub on my Fulcrum Racing 3 10-speed and saw a bit of play in the cassette so continued to tighten the lock ring. It said 40mn but I obviously got carried away as the lockring popped off, threads failed. Can't really see whether it was the hub that failed due to over-stressing or only the lock ring (which is now dead), or both.

Anyone have any similar experience? I was thinking that the hub would have the more solid threads, would rather not have to buy yet another one! And should there be some slight flex in an 11 speed cassette?

k-dog

There shouldn't be any play - did you have the right spacer behind the cassette?

I would hope that the lockring would be weaker than the freehub so hopefully you can just get a lockring and clean the threads and it will be fine.

I've been using a torque wrench for these and BB cups for a few years now - I was surprised that 40Nm isn't as tight as you think - it's firm but that's it.

trailflow

40nm sounds like alot to me. I've never needed to tighten the lockring that tight. As a rule of thumb i tighten it until it stops turning then abit more, just enough i know i can get it off. Don't forget the lockring is notched to help stop it loosening.

There should be no play in the 11 speed cassette. You need another spacer behind it.

964cup

There are no spacers behind the cassette on 11-speed. So either you're missing part of the cassette (a cog, or a spacer between cogs) or you have a freewheel problem.

Smokin Joe

trailflow wrote:

40nm sounds like alot to me. I've never needed to tighten the lockring that tight. As a rule of thumb i tighten it until it stops turning then abit more, just enough i know i can get it off. Don't forget the lockring is notched to help stop it loosening.

There should be no play in the 11 speed cassette. You need another spacer behind it.

I only ever nip a lockring up, never had one loosen on me.

craker

I did that on some new R500s a while back - brand new, broke the thread off the freehub. Luck for me I just took the one off my old set.

I've just got some racing 3s - My first ride with them sounded like I had a broken gearbox as the cassette was loose. I'm on 10 speed with the supplied 10 speed spacer ring. I couldn;t get the play out of it whatever I did, I did however find another 10 speed spacer - using both of them fits a 10 speed cassette nicely on the Fulcrum freehub. I don't quite get it but it works and I can't see any potential for ruining my bike or my ride if I've done something wrong.

mamba80

craker wrote:

I did that on some new R500s a while back - brand new, broke the thread off the freehub. Luck for me I just took the one off my old set.

I've just got some racing 3s - My first ride with them sounded like I had a broken gearbox as the cassette was loose. I'm on 10 speed with the supplied 10 speed spacer ring. I couldn;t get the play out of it whatever I did, I did however find another 10 speed spacer - using both of them fits a 10 speed cassette nicely on the Fulcrum freehub. I don't quite get it but it works and I can't see any potential for ruining my bike or my ride if I've done something wrong.

Newer F3 s would be 11sp, so would need the 1.85 plus the normal 1mm.

ugo.santalucia

The 40 Nm torque is excessive anyway. Shimano don't care, as their free hub bodies made of steel can take it, but most freehubs out there are made of aluminium alloy and you will strip the threads if you torque to 40 Nm.
As a matter of fact, given the teeth on the last sprocket engaging with the locking ones, there is barely any need for torque... maybe 15-20 Nm. I never torque the locking beyond 3-4 clicks of the teeth and never had any problem with cassettes coming loose

Rightarmbad

You probably had the last cog not sitting properly on the splines.
Even if you stripped the freehub body threads, you may still have enough threads left to engage properly if the last cog is fitted properly.

superkenners

Thanks for thoughts, I had cleaned up the hub and it seems to be ok. Tried a lockring from the previously used 10 speed 105 cassette and that seems to bite enough. Bit of a relief as had just bought the new 11 speed hub, always painful breaking brand new stuff!

I thought 40mn seemed a lot, lack a torque wrench that will fit the cassette tool, only have one for allen bolts but by the sounds even if I had and torqued to 40mn it would have ended badly!

I had presumed the 11 speed hub wouldn't need a spacer, only needed for 10 speed which my F3's were before new hub. So guess something must not have been sitting properly when I tightened it all up.

Hopefully won't be too long for new bits to arrive, frustrating looking at new bike build sitting there with no cassette!

itboffin

They need to make these instructions and requirements more clear, i put on a 10 speed 12-27 last week replacing a 10 speed SRAM 11-25 and the shimano exploded diagram shows two spacers one before the main cassette and one before the lock ring

http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php? ... 0-3016.pdf

Now either they mean that ultra thin lockring or an actual additional spacer. Would it kill them to write some clear documentation with pictures not generic drawings !!!

964cup

itboffin wrote:

Now either they mean that ultra thin lockring or an actual additional spacer. Would it kill them to write some clear documentation with pictures not generic drawings !!!

The lockring comes with a thin crushable washer; you can remove it, so it's technically a separate part. As you can see from the diagram, the lockring and washer together make up part number 1. The point is that if the locking doesn't have that washer, because it's fallen off or been chewed up by ham-fisted handling, it won't work properly. I can't imagine anyone's ever ordered part number Y10Z04000, but you can: http://smartbikeparts.com/search_detail ... wgodt0YAog for $0.99...

superkenners

What bugs me is the little manual they put in the box doesn't actually tell you the details of how to install the item, you have to go and download thse the Shimano site, which drives me nuts. Never really understand why.

itboffin

964Cup wrote:

itboffin wrote:

Now either they mean that ultra thin lockring or an actual additional spacer. Would it kill them to write some clear documentation with pictures not generic drawings !!!

The lockring comes with a thin crushable washer; you can remove it, so it's technically a separate part. As you can see from the diagram, the lockring and washer together make up part number 1. The point is that if the locking doesn't have that washer, because it's fallen off or been chewed up by ham-fisted handling, it won't work properly. I can't imagine anyone's ever ordered part number Y10Z04000, but you can: http://smartbikeparts.com/search_detail ... wgodt0YAog for $0.99...

yarp i know that my point was the documentation needs to be clearer, exploded generic drawings aren't good enough. Questions like the OP has asked shouldnt need to be questions in the first place.