Winter killed my wheels...

UndercoverElephant

So, the bad news: I rode the Scott one day during winter, it was somewhat damp and I didn't sacrifice the requisite number of maidens. As such, my Bracciano wheels have pretty much thrown in the towel. The rear sounds like a bag-full of spanners (changed freehub and bearings but to no avail - WTF?) and the quick-release on the front is stucker than a very stuck thing. This makes me sad. They did me well for five years, though.

The good news: Mrs. Elephant has been primed to expect a new wheelset to arrive either in parts or in full in the near future. The question is what?

Needs to be Shimano 11s compatible - cheaper 11 speed cassettes even if I am running Campagnolo.
Budget? Weeeell, I should really try for cheap-ish, obviously, but I don't want to end-up with rubbish. I'd prefer something light too, obviously. Ideas?

ugo.santalucia

It seems to me all very fixable for a bag of peanuts...

The fact that new bearings did not solve the problem is likely due to a monumental cockup in the installation of those.
There are 2 x bearings in the hub body + 3 in your freehub... you have changed all of them, how can the hub not be smooth?

As for the QR... a drop of oil? A new QR worth 5 quid?

The Rookie

As above, for the front a new QR is a no brainer surely, as for the rear, do the job properly!

UndercoverElephant

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It seems to me all very fixable for a bag of peanuts...

The fact that new bearings did not solve the problem is likely due to a monumental cockup in the installation of those.
There are 2 x bearings in the hub body + 3 in your freehub... you have changed all of them, how can the hub not be smooth?

As for the QR... a drop of oil? A new QR worth 5 quid?

As for the bearings, I agree - but I can't find the cock-up. Brand-new freehub too! It all seems smooth until under power - then it's bag-full of spanners again. Is it possible to knack the teeth that the pawls dig into? If so, I have have managed it.

The QR is somewhat more tricky than a drop of oil, I'm afraid. So far a week in penetrating oil still hasn't loosened it - I've managed to shift it a little using the QR itself as a lever, but it's not going any further. It could well be that the skewer has bent. I've unscrewed the left-hand bit of the axle and the QR goes with it. I've also tried all manner of persuasion. Nothing.

ugo.santalucia

WHere did you get the freehub? Is it the right freehub?

The Pro-Lite is a very rare Novatec C type, which, as far as I am aware is no longer on the market... you haven't fitted the more common A type, have you?

rower63

Play or slack in the spokes either where they meet the hub or where they cross over and rub? I had just this on a pair of DT Swiss R1700 wheels after I hadn't used them for a year. Bearings were fine.

UndercoverElephant

ugo.santalucia wrote:

WHere did you get the freehub? Is it the right freehub?

The Pro-Lite is a very rare Novatec C type, which, as far as I am aware is no longer on the market... you haven't fitted the more common A type, have you?

Well, it fits and has the needle-bearings in, which I think only the type-C had. Wiggle have Pro-Lite freehubs available, but not for the vintage of Bracciano that I have - I chose the one for Bracciano A27 and Bracciano 650C, which looked the closest in the pictures to the hub I had.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/pro-lite-replac ... ub-bodies/

It fits well and has no movement, so I think it's the correct one. The old one had the same noise/symptom. It if is a case that I need a rare and unobtainable freehub, then I'm pretty-much at point A, above.

Edit - This site: http://issuu.com/novatectaiwan/docs/cas ... lity_-_all seems to suggest that there's another "Type-E" freehub that also has needle bearings.

tgotb

Where I've seen these symptoms in the past, it's invariably been an issue with the reassembly of the hub; putting things back in the wrong order, the wrong way round (esp freehub seal) or not pressing one of the new bearings home properly. Subtly different replacement freehub (as Ugo suggests) could also do this.

daddy0

check you've tightened the cassette enough and used the right spacer - I had similar when using wrong spacer.

UndercoverElephant

Daddy0 wrote:

check you've tightened the cassette enough and used the right spacer - I had similar when using wrong spacer.

45 Nm, as per the writing on the lockring, spacer is correct for the cassette.

spasypaddy

have you put the spacer (its quite thick and looks like a ring for a finger) back on axle before putting the freehub back on?

sounds like the same issue i had with a planetx wheel.

The freehubs are also impossible to find. but i think ive got a source in an email somewhere if you need

UndercoverElephant

spasypaddy wrote:

have you put the spacer (its quite thick and looks like a ring for a finger) back on axle before putting the freehub back on?

sounds like the same issue i had with a planetx wheel.

The freehubs are also impossible to find. but i think ive got a source in an email somewhere if you need

OK, this is interesting: I didn't see any spacer, I'll check in the freehub I took off if one's stuck somewhere.

ugo.santalucia

UndercoverElephant wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

have you put the spacer (its quite thick and looks like a ring for a finger) back on axle before putting the freehub back on?

sounds like the same issue i had with a planetx wheel.

The freehubs are also impossible to find. but i think ive got a source in an email somewhere if you need

OK, this is interesting: I didn't see any spacer, I'll check in the freehub I took off if one's stuck somewhere.

Yep, without the spacer the hub binds...

spasypaddy

UndercoverElephant wrote:

spasypaddy wrote:

have you put the spacer (its quite thick and looks like a ring for a finger) back on axle before putting the freehub back on?

sounds like the same issue i had with a planetx wheel.

The freehubs are also impossible to find. but i think ive got a source in an email somewhere if you need

OK, this is interesting: I didn't see any spacer, I'll check in the freehub I took off if one's stuck somewhere.

yep, i through mine away and ended up needing to beg one off some random man in a foreign land. He posted me one very kindly so my wheel was no longer a waste of space.

looks a bit like this might be caught inside the old freehub:


I have ugo to thank for helping me come to the solution to my problem as well. so i cant take the credit.

UndercoverElephant

I've only gone and fixed them!

The problem with the rear turns out to be the new freewheel hates the seal used in the old one. With it, the freewheel binds, the mech slips and the chain crunches. Without it, it's just perfect. For now. At least it's a nice weather bike usually. The spacers in the Pro-Lite freewheel seem pressed on with the bearings.

The front was way beyond 'drop of oil'. I bought myself a fairly serious vice and with the help of a socket I pressed the snipped quick release out from the left hand axle bit. Took a lot of force and when it finally shifted it was covered in oxide. Stuck fast.

No new wheels required. Thanks for the help, chaps.

UndercoverElephant

UndercoverElephant wrote:

No new wheels required. Thanks for the help, chaps.

Though this goes to show how much you guys have changed. I had a pass from the Mrs to buy new bike things and you guys talked me out of it.

:?

ugo.santalucia

UndercoverElephant wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

No new wheels required. Thanks for the help, chaps.

Though this goes to show how much you guys have changed. I had a pass from the Mrs to buy new bike things and you guys talked me out of it.

:?

Just hate to see perfectly usable things going in the skip...

UndercoverElephant

Yeah, me too. I'm really glad to have them back. Slightly worried about the lack of seal now, though. Will need to find something to help with the sealing.

tgotb

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Yeah, me too. I'm really glad to have them back. Slightly worried about the lack of seal now, though. Will need to find something to help with the sealing.

Is it possible that the seal is ok, but that you put it back the wrong way round?

UndercoverElephant

I did try both ways, it's just too wide when the locknuts are tight and binds. I guess with it being an 11 speed freewheel now, it's just that little bit wider. I'll work something out.

ugo.santalucia

UndercoverElephant wrote:

I did try both ways, it's just too wide when the locknuts are tight and binds. I guess with it being an 11 speed freewheel now, it's just that little bit wider. I'll work something out.

That is something you didn't say originally... that you made an 11 speed conversion. The hub is probably not designed to take an 11 speed free hub. That said, if you can make it work without seal... it's not the end of the world... You just need to service the free hub more frequently and using more grease.

UndercoverElephant

Like you said, the original type C is hard to find. This is the C2, which is the compatible 11-speed version.

Sorry, almost compatible.

tgotb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

That said, if you can make it work without seal... it's not the end of the world... You just need to service the free hub more frequently and using more grease.

But not too much more grease :-) Insufficient grease and you let the water in, too much and you risk sticking the pawls down and ending up in permanent freewheel mode. So use your common sense and be prepared to experiment, but don't just ram in as much grease as you can, and hope for the best...

UndercoverElephant

I think the idea is plenty of grease where the seal used to be.

First.Aspect

I just can't believe that you've actually told Mrs UE that the wheels are okay.

UndercoverElephant

First Aspect wrote:

I just can't believe that you've actually told Mrs UE that the wheels are okay.

Now where did I say that? :twisted:

Actually, not having to buy the new wheels probably softens the fact that I have a set of Chorus shifters and a couple of new mechs to hang on the bike.