Di2 setup damaged in crash, what to look for to repair it?

OhPinchy

I came down in a crash in a race yesterday. Wasn't too bad, I've bumps and bruises but managed to come down sideways, kind of a 45 degree angle, so no major direct impact to me or the bike. It's a Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi Mod running Dura Ace Di2. I picked the bike up, pedals seemed to turn ok, so I jumped on and chased back onto the bunch. Only then realised the derailleurs wouldn't shift and I was stuck in 53x11 for the lonely 40km route home. And I'd lost my Garmin Edge 500 to boot.

The right shifter is scraped, has a couple of chips out of it, and it's bent/moved inwards, and there's a cut on the bar tape but I don't think any cables were cut. Rear derailleur definitely took some impact as the chain was tangled, but after loosening that out, it seemed ok. When I tried shifting front derailleur into little ring, it worked, but it never liked being in the 34x11 gear (wonder if that's due to chain length?) and so the chain kept falling off on the inside. So I kept it in 53x11 all the way home and there was a tickety-tick noise from the the chainring/derailleur area when pedalling, and the rear derailleur would make that click-click noise like it was trying to shift but couldn't.

The frame looks ok, initial glance showed no scrapes or signs of impact. Will double-check it. I usually do most of the work on my bike though I felt this time I'd bring it to the LBS to get it properly taken care of. Rang them and they have an event on so couldn't get it back to me until end of next week, and getting out of work to an LBS further afield will be a challenge for me, so I'd like to try get it working myself.

I'll check if the rear derailleur hanger was bent or not, and have ordered one anyway, as it's good to have one on-hand for quick repair if needed. I'm guessing I take both the rear and front derailleurs off the bike and then basically follow YouTube videos as if I was installing them from new? Or is there any way to put it into recalibration mode first to see if a reset will get it back working?

Not sure about the shifter - use brute force to move it back, or take the bar tape off and refit it (guessing there is a bolt to be undone, reposition shifter, reset bolt)? Any tips to help get my steed back on the road in time for this weekend's racing are much appreciated!

crikey

You're racing on Di2, but the questions you are asking suggest that you don't know very much about it in terms of how to straighten the shifters and so on.

You know that Di2 will disengage the drive to the rear derailleur in a crash to avoid damaging the mech, right?
The shifters are the same as every other shifter on the planet and are fastened to the bars by an allen key under the rubber hoods.

I usually do most of the work on my bike

Really?....

jgsi

I'm sure fitting new mech will get your shifting back into action.. however even I is a bit puzzled if you really are running a 53/34 chainring config... or that a typo as that combination doesnt really work?

trailflow

edit

OhPinchy

crikey wrote:

You're racing on Di2, but the questions you are asking suggest that you don't know very much about it in terms of how to straighten the shifters and so on.

You know that Di2 will disengage the drive to the rear derailleur in a crash to avoid damaging the mech, right?
The shifters are the same as every other shifter on the planet and are fastened to the bars by an allen key under the rubber hoods.

I usually do most of the work on my bike

Really?....

That attitude is unnecessary.

I didn't claim to be an expert, just that I do most of the work on my bikes. For example, last weekend I changed the bars on my TT bike, which required replacing shifters, brake levers and all cables. Took me a good while as it was my first time doing it, but largely thanks to helpful YouTube videos, I got there in the end.

I would guess the vast majority of people racing on Di2 are not aware of there being a crash protection mode, I certainly wasn't until you mentioned it. So thanks for that helpful piece of information, it actually sounds like a very smart feature now that I've read about it. I'll check if disengaging crash protection mode helps.

JGSI, yes, that was a typo. The chainrings are actually 53/39 and in the 39x11 gear the chain skips on the front derailleur, so I avoid that gear.

crikey

Again, the things you are writing suggest that you don't have very much experience with bike mechanics in general and especially with Di2.

The fact that you have Di2 and are inexperienced leads me to think of you as a classic example of ATGNI.

DKay

crikey wrote:

Again, the things you are writing suggest that you don't have very much experience with bike mechanics in general and especially with Di2.

The fact that you have Di2 and are inexperienced leads me to think of you as a classic example of ATGNI.

Ouch!

crikey

Harsh but fair IMO.

Every review of Di2 remarks on the disconnection in the event of a crash. I know about it and I don't even use it.
Claiming that you do most of the work on your bike then asking how the levers can be straightened?

There was a time when mechanical proficiency went hand in hand with being a cyclist...

pippi_langsamer-2

I had a very similar incident- went down in a race but hard on the dirty side of my bike I.e drivetrain down.

Frame binned, Di2 rear mech and shifters pretty bashed up.

I was aware of the di2s ability to retract its bolleaux into itself to prevent serious damage, but just how much damage is it supposed to hold up to? I've reassembled all the components onto new frame, and run the crash recovery. It's working......but it's just not right. All seems well except when I'm changing up the cassette under load- it just seems to struggle, has lag and it's basically pretty rough. All other changes are absolutely fine. I've tried micro trimming, but still same story.

I guess I'm quite surprised it's not worse tbh. The crash snapped the hanger off the old frame. I was just curious as to whether there's something else in the diagnostic software that will tell me what I think I already know lol.... All connections tests run fine.

craker

crikey wrote:

Harsh but fair IMO.

Give the guy a break will you. When I'm stuck with a workshop issue, I head first to the BR workshop forums where I look forward to a constructive reply.

OhPinchy

crikey wrote:

Harsh but fair IMO.

Every review of Di2 remarks on the disconnection in the event of a crash. I know about it and I don't even use it.
Claiming that you do most of the work on your bike then asking how the levers can be straightened?

There was a time when mechanical proficiency went hand in hand with being a cyclist...

Wow, go on ya big keyboard warrior, sock it to the man! Responding to a fellow cyclist's request for some simple pointers to help him get his bike quickly back on the road by using it as an opportunity to lecture and to go as far as implying that he's lying about doing most of the work on his bike? Not exactly looking to win Mr. Nice Guy 2015, are you?

Of all the bike maintenance work I've done, replacing or repositioning shifters has never been needed, so I don't think it's a good barometer for whether or not someone can do standard maintenance work on their bike. I've now found a YouTube video which indicates the bolt that secures the shifter to the bars is under the hood, so you don't need to move the bar tape to get at it. If you take a dismissive approach, RTFM could probably be a standard response for a fairly high percentage of posts in this forum. But it's little nuggets of info that thankfully most forum users are happy to share that can really save people time (e.g. if you don't know crash protection exists, you're unlikely to go looking for it in the manual) and are much appreciated.

Just for anyone else that comes across this thread looking for a solution to a similar problem, the URL for the relevant Shimano manual explaining the crash protection function is
http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php? ... 00-ENG.pdf .

crikey

Not exactly looking to win Mr. Nice Guy 2015, are you?

You are riding a groupset that is capable of winning the Tour, yet don't know the most basic things about it.
Take it to a bike shop, pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix it.

:roll:

robbo2011

What an unpleasant fellow you are, Mr. Crikey. Your rudeness is totally unnecessary. Were you bullied as child or something?

bondurant

Agreed. Help needed, not judgement.

rafletcher

OhPinchy wrote:

crikey wrote:

in the 39x11 gear the chain skips on the front derailleur, so I avoid that gear.

Not surprising as you're possibly running the chain very close to the outer chainring because of the extreme chainline.

964cup

OK, trying to bring this back on topic. Things to look at for both posters with post-crash problems:

1. Mech hanger alignment. Replacing the hanger does not guarantee that it's aligned. Use a hanger alignment tool or get your LBS to align the hanger.

2. Check cables for damage and ensure connectors are properly seated. Cables are cheap - replace if there's any doubt. If using external cabling, you might want to replace junction B at the same time. If you damaged the shifter, check that the shift buttons both click and return properly - it's really easy to break the smaller shift button (I know, I did it in my last crash). Hot tip - having an SW-R600 climber switch, or sprint shifters, means you'll still have gearshifts even if you wreck the main shifter.

3. Completely re-do the setup of both mechs, checking limit screws, B-screw and then Di2 trim. Your hanger alignment is likely to be different, so you will need to re-adjust shifting. Usual drill - big ring in front, shift to 4th cog in from the outside, go into adjustment mode (hold the junction A button down until you get a solid red light) then step inwards (as if shifting to a larger cog) until you get noisy running, then step outwards four clicks. Hold the junction A button down again to clear adjustment mode. Check shifting in all gears. Now shift to big-big, go back into adjustment mode and use the LH shifter to adjust the front mech trim.

4. If you're still having trouble, assuming you have an internal battery, you can use the charger connected to a laptop to do some basic tests and diagnostics. For example, you can switch the shifter functions around so that the LH shifter controls the RD; that lets you rule out button problems on the RH shifter. You should also check the RD cage carefully to ensure that the jockey wheels are running freely, and check that neither the chainrings nor the chain have any damage. If in doubt, change the chain - they're cheap too.

5. If it's still not right, then you're in RD/RH shifter replacement territory, I'm afraid.

lesfirth

robbo2011 wrote:

What an unpleasant fellow you are, Mr. Crikey. Your rudeness is totally unnecessary. Were you bullied as child or something?

You can not print the opinion I have formed of Mr Crikey.

pippi_langsamer-2

Some useful tips there 964Cup, ta....

I'm ruling out most of them, but your tip re changing the config' on the shifters to rule-out paddle damage will be tried out.

I crashed on a Foil, and transferred all running gear onto an Addict, so most of the variables (if not all), should be same or similar (mech hanger alignment etc). E-Tubes hasn't flagged-up any connection issues neither.

OhPinchy

Thanks a lot for that very helpful info 964Cup.

So the good news first: I inspected the frame and there is not a scratch on it, seems it survived unscathed. I was able to move the right brifter back into position and secure it and remove and reinsert the Di2 cable to ensure a good connection. The front derailleur had been moved out of position but not damaged - removed it and reinstalled and it seems to be working perfectly.

Bad news: I think the rear derailleur is screwed. The cage is bent and has a crack in it, and it looks misaligned so the chain slips off the jockey wheel and pushes the cage out. The derailleur itself is scraped, but the main problem is it's just not moving, when trying a gear change, it makes a grinding electronic noise repeatedly but doesn't move. The right brifter is also scraped and the buttons felt a little loose at first, but I'm now thinking it's ok. I've uploaded some pics here: http://1drv.ms/1K4wP4L

I connected to a PC via USB connection into the SM-BCR2 port I hooked up to the Junction A 3-port box and ran the etube software. It recognised all components successfully and it updated the firmware on several components. Trying to change gears via the software did get the RD making some noise, but not really moving properly. I tried swapping the buttons around between the left and right brifters, but even when using the left brifter, there was no movement in the RD. When I hold down either shifter button on the right brifter, the battery indicator on the Junction A box does illuminate, which suggests to me that the shifter and buttons is working.

At this point, I think I need to replace the rear derailleur, and hopefully I don't have to replace the right brifter (can you buy those as singles or just in pairs?). I dropped my winter bike down to a local bike shop that is a low key outfit, just one guy but he knows what he's at. Intent is to get that bike fully serviced and ready to get me back racing tomorrow night, and he says he'll get it done in time, which is a big help as I'm short on time.

Once that's done, fixing my Cannondale is less time sensitive as I'll at least be back on the road. I've have a new rear derailleur hanger from Cannondale en route and we agreed that it'll be best that I go and buy a new RD (his supplier lead times can take a while) and hanger and then he'll sort it out.

So I need to make a call on what RD to buy. Nasty surprise to see the DuraAce Di2 rear derailleur is pricier than expected, cheapest I've seen it is 470 euro. Ultegra Di2 RD is 155 euro. Some difference! And reading up online suggests that I can use an Ultegra Di2 RD with the rest of my DuraAce Di2 components without issue. Advantage of Ultegra is that there are medium and short cage options. I'll be hitting the Mortirolo, Stelvio, Gavia etc. this summer so ability to put on an 11-30 would be handy. If the only downside of the medium cage is a few extra grams of weight and otherwise it functions as well as the short cage, I'll go with that.

So hopefully I don't need to go with a new DuraAce RD and a new right brifter, which would cost about 1,000 euro in total by the looks of it. If I could get out of jail for 155euro I would be delighted (and a fellow racer found my Garmin Edge lost in the crash and is returning it to me so happy days!). Yep, I'd prefer to keep full DuraAce on the bike, but given I'll be racing it again, the cheaper Ultegra option is a good trade-off.

964cup

You can mix and match 6870 and 9070 to your heart's content. I use an Ultegra 6870GS with an 11-32 cassette in the Alps, and a 9070 RD the rest of the time. I have a specific chain for each, to avoid chain-wrap problems with a long chain on the 9070 RD. Best place to get a DA RD at the moment is probably Ribble - about 440 euro; shifters about the same price for the pair. It's where I bought my replacement RD and shifters last time I crashed. You can get the shifters individually, but it can work out cheaper to buy a set and the sell the one you don't need on eBay.

I can't tell the difference between Ultegra and DA Di2 from a shift quality perspective, so it's weight and aesthetics only. Remember you can use Ultegra shifters too, again with only the weight and aesthetics to think about.

You've probably figured this out, but you can test the RH shifter by using the E-Tube software to switch it to controlling the FD... Put the FD in trim mode and you can check for multiple clicks in each direction.