bike fit experience.

cste

Hi all.

I'm just looking for any experience's with bike fit's. Deep down I know I should as I get pain between the shoulders/lower neck on longer rides, but what if they don't find anything and it's just a core strengthening that's required! Or does this kind of pain point to my position on the bike?

mrushton

it could be any/all of those or more. Stem length, bar height/reach,physiological issues, lack of long rides. If it's uncomfortable and you've been riding a while then poss. stem/bar issues may be giving the problem - possibly!

Silly Old Hector

You wouldn't drive your car with the seat and steering wheel set in the wrong place, why do it with your bike....?

BrandonA

Silly Old Hector wrote:

You wouldn't drive your car with the seat and steering wheel set in the wrong place, why do it with your bike....?

I don't get your analogy. Are you saying that you paid someone to help you adjust the steering wheel, mirrors and seat in your car? Or are you saying that bike fits are not necessary as you can adjust your bike settings yourself just like a car?

slowmart

Not that much detail to provide any informed advice so

How many miles do you usually cycle? Is your body cycle fit or are you getting fatigued? What is a long ride as this is subjective and then is this in terms of miles or time?

Any changes to your bike or contact points?

You'll appreciate there are a few possible scenarios here so its a process of elimination, if our happy strengthening your core first and if the pain still persists then you know its more to do with your riding position.


Alternatively if you go for a bike fit its a great way to ensure you have the best set up and should head off any issues at least the next 12-18 months. i went for one and found it a great return for the outlay and I used the local specialised concept store

cste

Slowmart wrote:

Not that much detail to provide any informed advice so

How many miles do you usually cycle? Is your body cycle fit or are you getting fatigued? What is a long ride as this is subjective and then is this in terms of miles or time?


Any changes to your bike or contact points?

You'll appreciate there are a few possible scenarios here so its a process of elimination, if our happy strengthening your core first and if the pain still persists then you know its more to do with your riding position.


Alternatively if you go for a bike fit its a great way to ensure you have the best set up and should head off any issues at least the next 12-18 months. i went for one and found it a great return for the outlay and I used the local specialised concept store

I'm riding 2 or 3 times a week, with a 40 - 60 mile ride being the longest at the moment, but increasing the distance when possible. I am reasonably fit for these distances.

It more than likely is a set up issue, as its not as bad on my winter bike. I've tried to match the set up of the two as near as possible, but the summer/carbon bike i'm having the issues with is a slightly "racier" geometry.

Could handlebar width cause this pain? as the bars on the winter bike are a size wider. This may be an obvious thing, but can 2cm make all that much of a difference?

alihisgreat

A bike fit can be very different depending on where you go/how much you pay.

At the basic end of the spectrum (~£100+) its someone fitting you based on the accepted set of angles and orientations for a 'good' bike fit, and they will take into account your flexibility, injuries and goals to get a good fit for you. Think of a man with a protractor and a tape measure, measuring your position and then watching you cycle on a turbo trainer and adjusting your position accordingly.

Pay a little more and you'll get a dynamic fit like Retul where they can analyse your pedaling motion to isolate problems. Typically these are more in-depth fits which go into more detail with cleat positioning, shims, etc.

The person giving you the fit is probably the most important thing though, not really any reason an experienced fitting couldn't spot knee tracking problems in the pedal stroke, i suspect a system motion capture system just makes it a bit easier!

I think its best to get one done because chances are you haven't got the best position currently, and even small changes can make a big difference on the bike.

Rod11

I personally feel that perhaps the best cycling related purchase you can make is a good bike fit. Yes, they might tell you that your position is spot on and that you don't need to make any changes, but at least you have that piece of mind and know what you need to focus on.

I know this forum is a great source of advice, but realistically it's very difficult to objectively give you information about what's the cause of your pain. Yes it could be handlebars, and you could buy a new set and that might fix it, but it might not. And so on you could try, changing different components, tweaking your position, but at the end of the day the why not just get a bike fit. Long term it could save you more than just money.

crikey

I think that bike fits for most people are snake oil.

The principles of fitting you to a bike are well known, straightforward and easily accessible.

Use the Internet.

When I looked at bike fit I had to go to the library (remember those?) and take a book out (remember that?) and read about the ideas of Bernard Hinault.

Teach yourself, do a bit of learning....

Sir Velo

Bike fit is in my opinion important, but that doesn't mean that you have to spend a fortune or any money. A lot of the basic principles can be obtained from good "bike training/fit" books. Equally if in a club there is often someone that can advise

For me a combination of books (+a couple of Allen keys while out riding) a lbs that gave me a basic fit for free (confirmed my own fit within less than 2mm) and a former pro that worked for me.

What I like is that once the basics are known you can always tweak for difference races (in my case a different set up for sprint and long distance tri's).

But if you are going to pay then find out as much as possible about the person who will actually do the fit.

SV

rrsodl

cste wrote:

Hi all.

I'm just looking for any experience's with bike fit's. Deep down I know I should as I get pain between the shoulders/lower neck on longer rides, but what if they don't find anything and it's just a core strengthening that's required! Or does this kind of pain point to my position on the bike?

Mmm I had similar lower neck pain when I extended my stem by 1cm. Having said that, I'm not free from pain after a ling brake from longer rides... ie. about this time of the year, I hardly do any long rides through the winter. After 4 or 5 rides I'm ok though.

Fitting is good but make sure you get a good one. I researched the subject when I had the problem with the longer stem and there is more than one system and some didn't inspire any faith. Look for somebody that comes well recommended.
I liked those that use a software to analyse your riding.

davep1

I had a Specialised fit about a year ago. It was £120, which bearing in mind my bike cost "only" £500 is a huge outlay for someone with my bike budget. I also knew I would probably need components so £120 was likely to be only the start...
I had a few basic things wrong - the handlebars were very slightly off being dead straight so my aches and pains were more one-sided, and I had spotted the issue but it seemed so negligible I didn't do anything about it.
I was also using shoes 2 sizes too big; I get cold feet whatever I do so I was wearing at least two pairs of socks to compensate. I ended up buying new properly fitting shoes with insoles.
However, I think it was the best purchase apart from the actual bike. I also got to try various demo saddles for a couple of weeks after.

drlodge

As ALIHISGREAT pointed out, not all bike fits are the same. I would separate them into 2 main camps:

a) Basic bike fit - essentially making adjustments to the bike to get you to fit the bike properly. The focus is on making changes to the bike

b) More in depth analysis of your physique with a focus on the foot/pedal interface. This can take a lot of time and then fitting you to the bike is relatively quick

I had a great time at http://www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk/ 6 hours all (2 bikes) in with most of that focused on the foot/pedal interface. Not cheap and not much change to my bike (it is a custom made Rourke!) but confirmed everything was as it should be and the wedges/shims fitted to my shoes made a big difference to even out the power from both legs.

MrSweary

drlodge wrote:

I had a great time at http://www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk/ 6 hours all (2 bikes) in with most of that focused on the foot/pedal interface. Not cheap and not much change to my bike (it is a custom made Rourke!) but confirmed everything was as it should be and the wedges/shims fitted to my shoes made a big difference to even out the power from both legs.

Seconded. Not cheap but cured the knee pain I'd been having and there is no way I'd have been able to do that myself even with all the books in the world.

debeli

My view is not based on experience, but it may help.

My bicycle set-up is based on tips given to me over the years and on advice from more experienced riders at clubs.

In my experience, club riders with a few years under their casquette know a thing or two. The same goes for owners or experienced staff in an LBS.

My own bikes, those of my three (teen or adult) children and that of my wife are all set up by plonking them on a Turbo and applying the received wisdom of this advice along with the peculiarities of the individual.

A few rides (only a few) and not many miles will quickly bring to light an issue. And almost everything can be tweaked a millimetre this way or that with a couple of Allen Keys, mid-ride.

By all means be fitted for a bicycle, but do ask yourself how on Earth anyone managed before this industry was invented. It is not Rocket Science.

I know people (we all do) who moan about their ill-fitting carbon road shoes, bought online and untried to save money, but rave about their Pro BikeFit, bought at much cost and involving the further purchase of a cranked seatpost and a shorter stem.

Just as some drivers will never be happy until they have 380bhp under their right foot, some cyclists just have to indulge in every possible piece of conspicuous consumption. Not conspicuous in the traditional sense, but have you noticed how often the recent BikeFit wrigles its way into every conversation about Syria or the price of cod?

Do it if it makes you happy, but it's just a bicycle and it comes with adjustment built-in. You simply have to wiggle some spanners and it all moves.

Yours ever,

A Cynic.

mrushton

It's actually a bio-mechanical interface that has a number of contact points (hands,seat,feet) and requires those points to be approximately correct in relation to the bike and the physiology of the user. If you have a 13 cm drop from saddle to drops it may be uncomfortable or impossible to ride in that position, similarly with too long a stem, to much/not enough setback etc. Get something wrong or have issues somewhere in the process and it can be uncomfortable at best

jazgill

MrSweary wrote:

drlodge wrote:

I had a great time at http://www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk/ 6 hours all (2 bikes) in with most of that focused on the foot/pedal interface. Not cheap and not much change to my bike (it is a custom made Rourke!) but confirmed everything was as it should be and the wedges/shims fitted to my shoes made a big difference to even out the power from both legs.

Seconded. Not cheap but cured the knee pain I'd been having and there is no way I'd have been able to do that myself even with all the books in the world.

+1 for the Bike Whisperer.

debeli

mrushton wrote:

It's actually a bio-mechanical interface that has a number of contact points (hands,seat,feet) and requires those points to be approximately correct in relation to the bike and the physiology of the user. If you have a 13 cm drop from saddle to drops it may be uncomfortable or impossible to ride in that position, similarly with too long a stem, to much/not enough setback etc. Get something wrong or have issues somewhere in the process and it can be uncomfortable at best

Indeed, but this is true of the driver's seat of a motor car, a dining chair, a sculling boat and many other devices that involve some aspect of ergonomic juxtaposition.

Of course a movement of 1mm in one plane will have some effect elsewhere. That is a metaphor for much of life. Nonetheless, it is all pretty simple stuff and before the 'industry' was invented the world of club racing (and that of leisure cycling) was not full of people agonising over whether a longer stem or a tilted saddle might alleviate their chronic neck/shoulder/elbow pain. It really is just a bicycle and it really isn't too hard to set up.

I wish those in the bikefit industry well, but in years to come we will throw back our heads and laugh at those who bought into their expertise at so great a cost.

napoleond

Its all well and good dissing good bike fitters but I wouldn't be riding now had I not been to my preferred one. I was getting a lot of pain and no matter what Isis it was getting worse and worse. I'm now enjoying my riding more than ever and as a result the fit was well worth it.

stevie63

The thing I notice is that quite often those that moan about bike fits being a waste of money will then often post links to sites such as Steve Hogg's who unless I am mistaken is someone who makes money from Bike Fits.

debeli

stevie63 wrote:

The thing I notice is that quite often those that moan about bike fits being a waste of money will then often post links to sites such as Steve Hogg's who unless I am mistaken is someone who makes money from Bike Fits.

I apologise for any offence or ire caused. I'm not moaning - and it's not my place to do so.

I have a quiet giggle to myself about such things, but I'd never admit to that on the Internet so it doesn't count as disrespectful.

I have friends who've used BikeFits and swear by them, but then I have friends who extol the virtues of heroin and speed - and that doesn't make them any righter.

norvernrob

NapoleonD wrote:

Its all well and good dissing good bike fitters but I wouldn't be riding now had I not been to my preferred one. I was getting a lot of pain and no matter what Isis it was getting worse and worse. I'm now enjoying my riding more than ever and as a result the fit was well worth it.

I had a fit with the same guy - I paid the same for the fit + foot beds as I did for my saddle. I know which made the most difference!

My point is, a hundred quid (or two) for a bike fit is nothing compared to what most of us spend on shiny stuff that makes next to no difference. Bike fits really can, and do, make real differences to people's riding.

Whether you choose to research it all yourself, do the fit and hope you've got it right without wondering 'what if' all the time, or pay for the privilege of someone else to do it is up to the individual.

stevie63

Debeli wrote:

stevie63 wrote:

The thing I notice is that quite often those that moan about bike fits being a waste of money will then often post links to sites such as Steve Hogg's who unless I am mistaken is someone who makes money from Bike Fits.

I apologise for any offence or ire caused. I'm not moaning - and it's not my place to do so.

I have a quiet giggle to myself about such things, but I'd never admit to that on the Internet so it doesn't count as disrespectful.

I have friends who've used BikeFits and swear by them, but then I have friends who extol the virtues of heroin and speed - and that doesn't make them any righter.

I am honestly not offended, I have not had a bike fit, but I am am quite happy to consider one especially as the poster above notes we will drop money on things that may not make much of a difference to our performance. I will happily pay over £100 for a pair of shorts that are comfortable but they will do nothing to alleviate back, neck and shoulder pain. Some will spend £250 plus on a pair of shoes that are slightly stiffer. However for what seems a fair outlay (considering the fitter's time and experience) some will not consider this a wise investment.

cste

Appreciate all the input here, i do love a good debate :-) Some interesting points, and i can see both sides.

I made a call to my LBS today and had a long chat with the guy who does the fits there and have decided to go ahead with a fit after describing my issues and discussing the full procedure and what is covered.

I have tried to tinker with seat positions etc, but no joy.

I could buy a longer/shorter stem and new handlebars but if that doesn't work.....? If i had the confidence/patience/time/etc to do all this i may consider it. But the piece of mind that a trained person with years of experience as a cyclist himself outweighs the messing around and uncertainty in my eyes. Plus, they only charge £90 for a minimum 2 hour appointment.

Lets see how it goes.

andyeb

Hope the fit goes well, although to some extent, you will probably get what you pay for; it takes training and lots of experience for a bike fitter to get good and the good ones know they can and should charge a bit more. I wouldn't under-estimate the value of an experienced pair of eyes just watching you pedal on the bike - they can pick up on very subtle cues which a computer based system would probably miss.

Think of it as like going to the doctor - although in theory a newly qualified GP provides equal advice to a GP who is coming up for retirement, the more experienced doctor is more likely to have seen even the most unusual complaints before and will know the most effective remedy.

Personally, I had an "lo-tech" bike fit at WyndyMilla by an experienced fitter. I'm now more comfortable AND more aero - I went to the fit thinking that these two things would be exactly opposed to one another.

cste

Fingers crossed. After the lengthy chat, he did put my mind at ease about it being " cheap for a reason " as he seamed very knowledgable about the importance of every aspect.

And like I say, the peace of mind that a seasoned rider/mechanic/and even a world record breaker may see something I would never to make me comfy on the bike, should be money well spent.

ai_1

It's certainly possible to learn a lot yourself via internet, books, etc, and then do your own bike fit. With a little effort and perhaps some luck, you'll end up with a decent setup. The advantage is that you learn lots and should be able to understand why you have things as you do and make further tweaks as needed. The downside is that, obviously, as a completely inexperienced and self taught beginner you are far more likely to get something wrong or be unable to pinpoint the cause of a specific issue.
So if you're willing to put the time and effort in then by all means do your own bike setup. If you are comfortable and happy, great. If you have any problems you can still go for a professional bike fit.
On the other hand, if you're not bothered about figuring this stuff out for yourself then just get a professional bike fit.
I think we all tend to think if we pay money we should walk away with a physical product or we've been scammed. I disagree. Time is valuable. The rates charged by bike fitters don't seem too exorbitant to me. I'd prefer not to have to pay €100+ for a bike fit. €40 sounds much better but then €5 sounds better than €200 for a pair of Assos shorts but that doesn't make it a reasonable expectation. It's a fair price and if it solves an ongoing problem it'll be well worth it. Your choice.

Spatulala

It seems a bike fit is a perfectly sensible way to spend money in return for improvement on the bike. Have pain and discomfort, consult expert, fix pain. More likely to help you than a bling pair of wheels. The bike may be a simple thing but the body is not.