Light, sturdy wheels

feisty

Hi

I am looking to get some light, yet sturdy, wheels. Wheels that can cope with awful Kent road surfaces but which will be good for climbing. Budget circa £500

Was thinking of the Mavic Ksyrium Elite S

Or maybe a handbuilt equivalent.

Any thoughts? And I understand these wider rims are all the rage now. But won't they give my tyres a wider and hence slower profile?

mrushton

Wheel section in Road buying will answer your questions.

simon_masterson

A narrower rim might make sense if you are using 19mm tubs and doing time trials - and wanting to shave off a few seconds. For general road cycling, more spokes, handbuilt; and the thinking about wider rims does seem to make sense.

imposter2.0

feisty wrote:

And I understand these wider rims are all the rage now. But won't they give my tyres a wider and hence slower profile?

Yep - wider rims are all the rage because they make people slower. Does that make sense?

ugo.santalucia

Ease of service and replacing parts aside, the 300-500 pounds bracket of the market is where handbuilts have an edge over factory wheels, in terms of value for money.

Less than that and the various slashed prices on Zonda, Fulcrum etc... make them more viable; more than that and you start buying into boutique products without getting any real advantage in the hand built market.

Hope or Dura Ace on Archetype, Hope on Pacenti... they are all comfortably in your budget range and in my view are better than the Elite S.

Bear in mind the Ksyrium Elite have been around since the late nineties, with very small improvements. They are still very good wheels, but they are no longer value for money

Monty Dog

Wider tyres + rims = lower rolling resistance, particularly tubeless. Nothing to stop you rattling your fillings out by riding about with 20mm rims and tyres inflated to 120psi - you'll be less comfortable and probably get more punctures.

feisty

Imposter wrote:

feisty wrote:

And I understand these wider rims are all the rage now. But won't they give my tyres a wider and hence slower profile?

Yep - wider rims are all the rage because they make people slower. Does that make sense?

I understood they were all the rage because of comfort and grip in wet. I wasn't sure about speed hence the question. Is there really any need to answer in that tone?

feisty

Thanks everyone.

Seems view is 23mm is way to go

Have heard good things re: the archetypes and pancenti (albeit been told changing tyre on latter more tricky). Only thing re: archetype is that the surface is black I think and therefore starts showing marks with brake wear if you don't have discs I think?

Rocketm0n

Mavic Elites http://www.4thebike.de/wheels/roadbike/ ... wts-wheels @£302 plus delivery these have to be complete no brainer. I can vouch for fast+efficient delivery having recently bought from them, as have others on here. If you go to the web-site, click the union jack in the top right hand corner of the page to see the page in English.

DKay

feisty wrote:

Thanks everyone.

Seems view is 23mm is way to go

Have heard good things re: the archetypes and pancenti (albeit been told changing tyre on latter more tricky). Only thing re: archetype is that the surface is black I think and therefore starts showing marks with brake wear if you don't have discs I think?

Half a dozen decent rides on black Archetypes will result in a nice silver brake track, expecially if you ride in the wet. Don't worry about it, it's only anodising.

simon_masterson

Rocketm0n wrote:

Mavic Elites http://www.4thebike.de/wheels/roadbike/ ... wts-wheels @£302 plus delivery these have to be complete no brainer. I can vouch for fast+efficient delivery having recently bought from them, as have others on here. If you go to the web-site, click the union jack in the top right hand corner of the page to see the page in English.

The industry may want you to buy wheels like that because they're cheap and convenient for them to produce, and won't last long, but for everyday road cycling, you are better off with fully spoked handbuilt wheels; and even in time trial terms, the difference that reducing the number of spokes makes is pretty low on the list of aerodynamic gains.

DKay

feisty wrote:

Any thoughts? And I understand these wider rims are all the rage now. But won't they give my tyres a wider and hence slower profile?

The sidewall of the tyre will sit more flush with a wider rim, actually reducing drag. Not that you'll notice any real difference. Cornering confidence with a wider rim is also much improved, wet or dry.

w00dster

My winter wheels were built by a member here, fantastic set, Archetype rims with Hope hubs. Not sure of the weight but about 1650grams give or take. I generally use them with 25c Conti 4 Season. At the moment I'm riding my Bontrager RXL with 23c tubeless tyres, approx 1400grams, 0 noticable speed difference and 0 noticable difference in hill climbing.
The only wheels I notice a significant difference with are a lot more expensive, again with a 23c tyre. I'vei also had lots of Mavic Krysium wheelsets (different flavours),same boat as the Bonty for me, they're fine and do a job, but don't be expecting to be seeing vast differences in performance, unless your current wheels are squares!
Personally I'd save up a tad more and look at what £800 may let you buy. To me that price range opens up some different options, as it's coming towards summer I'd be looking at some lightweight deep section rims. If you can't wait then I'd probably opt for the Archetype rime with good hubs, after a year these could them become your winter wheels as mine did. I personally much prefer the archetype over krysiums, but it's different horses for different courses.

feisty

And if budget was £800 what wheels would you recommend? Still hand-built?

w00dster

feisty wrote:

And if budget was £800 what wheels would you recommend? Still hand-built?

Personally I think at the £800 price range factory are the way to go. As the weather is still a bit pap the current wheels on my bike are Bontrager RXL's. RRP for these are £750. I run them tubeless.
Initially during the winter rides I wasn't overly impressed, however after 2000kms I have to admit to being won over. They roll incredibly smooth and accelerate nicely. Weight wise they are 1440 grams. I do have lighter more aero carbon wheels, but for the price I'm very happy with the RXL's. When people say wheels fly up hills, nah, that doesn't happen. Maybe they are faster up short rolling hills and that feels easier, but on proper hills you still have to put the effort in.
I also recently used a set of tubular planet x CT45 carbon wheels, very impressed. An awful lot cheaper than my other wheels but not that noticable a performance difference. Admittedly it was a nice day with little wind when I rode the planet x, but for £500 they seem like a very good set of wheels.
I've also heard good things about Fulcrum Racing Zero Nite which can be had for approx £825.
If it was aero (deep rims) you were after, lots of choices, depends on wanting clincher/tubs, carbon or alu braking etc. Basically for light weight wheels then carbon tubulars are the way to go, but not everyone likes the carbon braking, so that leaves alu braking which adds weight so loses out on one of your requirements. Fulcrum Red Wind XLR might be worth a look (approx 1640 grams or so the spiel says) , selling at £900 at the moment, a club member has these and really likes them. A cheaper option would be the Shimano RS81 at approx £600. Lots of people on this site recommend them for the price.
Personally since riding the Planet X a couple of weeks ago I would go down that route and get the tubulars. I'm probably going to do that myself for training rides.

964cup

I'm with Paolo on this one. At £400 it makes sense to go handbuilt. Archetypes on DA/Hope/Record is to some extent the standard route, with options for Pacenti (wide, tubeless) or Kinlin (deeper section) or Ambrosio Nemesis if you ride tubs. Another option (he won't agree with me here) is Stans ZTR340 on Novatec SL hubs, run tubeless. I've built several sets of these. They come in under 1400g (depending on spoke choice and count). My own set is 20/24 and I have a couple of thousand faultless commuting kms on them; all weathers and crap road surfaces. They also come in under £400 ready to roll, including tubeless valves and tape.

The issue with Ksyriums and other factory wheels is that they can't be rebuilt economically, so you need to think of them as disposable. This isn't just about wear - although ridden in the wet or insufficiently cleaned, this will matter - it's also about crash damage. To give you an example, a mate of mine had a crash on some Shimano RS81s. He needed a new rim. The rim alone costs £150 (the price of 2 x Stans or 3 x Archetypes). The spokes (if you stick with Shimano's own) are £4 each (compared to 30p for DT Competition, or 90p for Sapim D-Lite, or £2.50 for C-Xray). You can reuse the spokes, but they're super-fragile, so best to assume you'll replace at least a couple. Add in the wheelbuilder's time, and you're not far from the cost of a new wheel. Replacing both rims makes no sense at all when you can buy the whole wheelset for £330.

w00dster

To OP, if you're ever in the Milton Keynes/Bucks area and wanted to try out a direct comparison with a good set of handbuilts and factory, I'm happy to take you for a pootle through the Bucks countryside. I have the archetype/hope Mono RS handbuilts and also a set of the Bontrager RXL's. As long as you've 11 speed Shimano jobs a good un.

Origami02

964Cup wrote:

The issue with Ksyriums and other factory wheels is that they can't be rebuilt economically, so you need to think of them as disposable.

This is quite simply misinformation. A guy in my club had a Ksyrium elite rear rebuilt at my local bike shop. The shop sourced the rim and the bill came to £100. He'd heard this urban myth and was set to bin the rear, sell the front and buy a new set of wheels till we, by-chance, had a coffee stop conversation and I pointed him in the right direction.
So for £100 he breathed several years more life into his wheels. When Kysrium Elites are available for £315 plus postage from 4thebike.de, I really wouldn't advise the OP to waste money spending any more than that.

These particular rims are also readily availble from online retailers eg http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/mavic-ks ... 78931.html

964cup

Origami02 wrote:

964Cup wrote:

The issue with Ksyriums and other factory wheels is that they can't be rebuilt economically, so you need to think of them as disposable.

This is quite simply misinformation, A guy in my club had a Ksyrium elite rear rebuilt at my local bike shop. The shop sourced the rim and the bill came to £100. He'd heard this urban myth and was set to bin the rear, sell the front and buy a new set of wheels, till we by-chance had a coffee stop conversation and I pointed him in the right direction.
So for £100 he breathed several years more life into his wheels.

These particular rims are also readily availble from online retailers eg http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/mavic-ks ... 78931.html

Interesting. Confess I hadn't searched for Ksyrium rims. Assuming the nipples arent seized (viewtopic.php?p=16783662) that may redeem the Ksyrium. I'd want to check that it was the right year, too - that's a 2011 rim.

Anyway, I think my point stands unless you can also find reasonably priced replacement rims for e.g. Cosmic Carbone (wheelset £650, rims £250 each), Dura-Ace C24 (wheelset £585, rims £250 each), Shimano RS81 (wheelset £370, rims £150 each), Fulcrum Racing 3 (wheelset £275, rims - can't find a UK source - US$151 each).

I've ended up rebuilding C24s with RS81 rims, and relegating a set of worn Cosmic Carbones to turbo use only, precisely because these replacement rim prices are so out of step with the (discounted) cost of new wheelsets. In fact, when I took the decision on the Cosmics, there were sets available for well under £600. Look on JE James, since you linked there. Rear Cosmic Carbone SL rim £240 (down from £299). Carbone SLS rear wheel, with tyre & tube, £377. £30 for the rebuild (based on your LBS price above), so £270 for a rebuilt wheel or £377 for a new one with a free tyre and tube (£43.68 value bought separately from JEJ). Do both wheels and the price difference between rebuilt and new is £110 across the whole wheelset, or about £25 more accounting for the tyres.

Bear in mind also that rebuilding these factory wheels can be considerably trickier than handbuilts - alloy nipples (with unique spoke keys for Mavic, Shimano tubeless etc), high spoke tension, weird spoke retention systems (e.g. Mavic Tracomp carbon spokes) - so you'll want a lot of confidence in your builder and s/he will be taking a risk if the price is fixed before the wheel is completely apart.

ugo.santalucia

964Cup wrote:

Bear in mind also that rebuilding these factory wheels can be considerably trickier than handbuilts -

You have to take case by case... sometimes it is true, sometimes it is not... for instance the R-SYS you mention with tracomp spokes are actually almost Meccano-like, meaning anyone can build one of these without any specific wheel building training... if you have played with Lego technic as a kid and can follow the instructions in the manual, you should be able to build one.

The new Elite-S are also fairly easy, while the old ones, as well as the Aksium, are more tedious to build, due to the way the spokes attach to the hub, which is machine rather than man-friendly.

Some outfits have started stocking a greater deal of Mavic spare parts too, compared to a few years back... I think Behind the Bikeshed can get you anything you need, although at RRP, which can be steep. So the message has finally come across and Mavic have realised they can't sell expensive wheels with virtually no UK backup.

Other wheels, like mid/high range Campagnolo and Fulcrum (Neutron, Zonda, R3 etc... ) are a right PITA to rebuild and hardly worth anyone's time. I have rebuilt a few Campagnolo, more of a favour than anything... if one had to charge for the time it really takes to fix these things, it wouldn't be economical... of course if you find a mechanic who rebuilds Campag wheels day in and day out, he will have a different opinion, but other than a Campag service centre (priced accordingly) who does, these days?

Origami02

Origami02 wrote:

964Cup wrote:

The issue with Ksyriums and other factory wheels is that they can't be rebuilt economically, so you need to think of them as disposable.

This is quite simply misinformation. A guy in my club had a Ksyrium elite rear rebuilt at my local bike shop. The shop sourced the rim and the bill came to £100. He'd heard this urban myth and was set to bin the rear, sell the front and buy a new set of wheels till we, by-chance, had a coffee stop conversation and I pointed him in the right direction.
So for £100 he breathed several years more life into his wheels. When Kysrium Elites are available for £315 plus postage from 4thebike.de, I really wouldn't advise the OP to waste money spending any more than that.

These particular rims are also readily availble from online retailers eg http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/mavic-ks ... 78931.html

964cup wrote:

I'd want to check that it was the right year, too - that's a 2011 rim

That particular rim was only listed as an example of how easy they are to find online.
The bottom line is that these type of wheels can often be rebuilt at any decent LBS for the price of a rim plus £20-£30.
http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/mavic-ks ... 88528.html

colinsmith123

The OP asked what light, sturdy wheels would be good for the roads around Kent. I've had my Mavic Kyrsium's for two years now and I've done the thick part of 7500km on them in that time.They've been rideen over the worst of the Kent roads, as well as the Paris-Roubaix Challenge twice.The very worst pot-holed Kent road would be a 2 star on the P-R.

I've had two issues, the front went out of true within a couple of weeks, got that fixed. And had to remove the freehub on the rear and give it a clean as it started making that screeching sound. A known Mavic issue you may or may never experience. If it does happen, it takes 30mins to take apart, clean and put back together.

So if the OP is able to pick up a pair for £302, then as others have said, it is a no brainer.

turbo1191

Take a look at HUNT wheels. New to the market. Seem to get cracking reviews, I'm going to be looking at these for a summer purchase.