Confidence on descents.

stoveman

Still building the miles and love every minute after returning to cycling after many years.
One issue that stills gets me nervous is high speed on descents,rode part of the route from Cyclist mag in the west of Cornwall yesterday.Effectively the coast road from StIves to Lands End,made it a fair way out and back to Hayle and realised that I need a lot more in the legs for the hill climbs.
Does confidence come in time or are there things I can work on to build confidence.
Currently riding a 14 speed 25 year old Bianchi,but SWMBO has agred £2K bike budget for next christmas .

IShaggy

Confidence comes with time. Just build up the speed slowly, and try to keep relaxed. I've heard some say that singing whilst descending helps you stay relaxed. Doesn't work for me but then my singing voice is god damn awful.

Also, if you're not already doing so, descend on the drops. Feels scary at first but you soon get used to it. Gives you better control as you've got more leverage on the brakes and your centre of gravity is lower.

DKay

Staying relaxed is a good tip. Another is to look through the corner and beyond as newer riders tend to look only a few metres in front of their front wheel. One tip I've adopted recently, is to tip the bike in by applying pressure to the side of the saddle from the inside of the top of your thigh. This also has the benefit of automatically lifting your inside leg and loading the outside pedal.

Finally, I've found the switch to wider rims has also increased my cornering confidence.

frisbee

My 25 year old bike has single pivot callipers (and pads that are about 15 years old), modern brakes are so much nicer and will make a big difference to confidence.

Just take it easy and don't worry about it until you get the new bike.

Silly Old Hector

Just pretend you are Valentino Rossi

awavey

Silly Old Hector wrote:

Just pretend you are Valentino Rossi

with the leg off the peg wave or without 8)

stoveman

Thanks for the feedback folks.Will just keep practising,I have progressed from the hoods to descending on the drops already and does feel a lot safer.
Really pleased with how things are going as I've dropped 3 stone since August and aiming to drop another 3 by next August,whence the new bike reward for christmas.
Milage now up to 50-60 miles a week over 2 rides,aiming to up that with a 6 mile commute now better weather is here.
Add to that gym session 3 days a week so getting plenty of cardio and weights in!
Regards

Phil.

Schoie81

frisbee wrote:

My 25 year old bike has single pivot callipers (and pads that are about 15 years old), modern brakes are so much nicer and will make a big difference to confidence.

I agree with this. I didn't have much confidence descending for the first 6th months on my road bike, but upgrading the stock brakes that came on my bike made a difference - when you're flying downhill, if you know your brakes are good and you can stop/slow down when you need to, it'll give you more confidence to go faster. That... and just keep doing it!!

keef66

Well done on the weight loss! Don't feel you have to descend like a demon, just ride in whatever way you feel comfortable.

Biggest help for me was the advice to look through the corner to where you want to go. Sounds daft but it does work and improves cornering confidence no end.

The other thing that helps confidence is keeping your bike checked over, well maintained, and tyre pressures topped up.

whoof

stoveman wrote:

Effectively the coast road from StIves to Lands End,

One of my favourites, although I usually do it the other way around, the view of St Ives bay from Rosewall Hill is outstanding.

I think the main thing is confidence and being relaxed. Go at a speed you feel comfortable with and this will soon feel 'normal'. You will then be able to go just a little quicker and you will acclimatise to this and so on.

cuichulain

It's silly, I know, but I found sort of saying "Swwooosh" to myself as I went through corners really helped. That and moving my head, looking through the whole corner with my head rather than just eyes... a little bit, you know, not shaking around like a wobbly dog!

I found it gave me the impression being in control of a computer character down the descent, rather than the impression of clinging desperately to an out-of-control death machine. Maybe it's just me, though!

kajjal

Good work on the weight loss, you may find changing the brake blocks will improve your braking and descending. The origins blocks on my bike were dire.

APIII

I love descending - it's the one time I can actually keep up with most people! Look as far ahead as you feel comfortable with, and put your garmin in your back pocket, so you're not distracted. I think as you lose more weight, you will naturally find riding on the drops more comfortable. Great going so far.

jaxf

I was (still am really) a terrible descender, I don't weigh very much - getting my excuses in early ....
The two things that have helped me most to achieve the 60+kmph routinely on long alpine descents are
1) like the Rossi comment - a biker friend of mine talked me through pushing down hard on the pedal of the straight leg whilst really getting the bent leg out at 90 degrees like a biker on the hairpins.
2) getting a better bike with brakes I really trusted - transformational

other than that, experience and getting gradually used to the speed has sped up my descent on my 'check how you're doing' section by 13kmph over the last 3 years.

btw, I still get left at the back on the downs - thank goodness I can climb ;-)

woolwich

Lots of good advice above. Particularly about looking through the bend.

Cornering is definitely something that can be worked on to become smoother, safer, faster.
Unless you have a background in motorcycling or have spent a lot of time on trackdays with gocarts, cars or whatever. This may be the first time you have used a vehicle where road positioning really matters and using the full width of the road when safe and learning to spot the apex becomes an option. Basically reading the road and picking a good line.
It's a skill that can be learnt. The really good guys down hill are not IMO the ones with the biggest balls but the ones who focus, concentrate and carry the most corner speed.
Good luck!

holiver

When I am going straight on a descent I have my pedals at 3 and 9 o'clock, have my heels down and move my weight backwards.

rick_chasey

Look where you want to go (ahead / round the corner, whatever).

Press down hard on the outside pedal when you corner.

Only brake when you need to. That's before the corner, so you can release the brake once you start to turn. Avoid breaking during corner if you can.

If there's no corner, don't brake.

Job done.

fudgey

With regard to actually turning the bike, say its a left hander, push with your left hand on the bar, sounds odd but will actually drop the left side of the bike down as you lean into the corner.
practice on the flat first to get a feel for it.

do all of your required braking in a straight line before a corner, yo do not want to be on the brakes while turning

and as has been said already, weight the outside pedal of the bike as you lean in.

lostboysaint

Fudgey wrote:

With regard to actually turning the bike, say its a left hander, push with your left hand on the bar, sounds odd but will actually drop the left side of the bike down as you lean into the corner.
practice on the flat first to get a feel for it.

do all of your required braking in a straight line before a corner, yo do not want to be on the brakes while turning

and as has been said already, weight the outside pedal of the bike as you lean in.

Countersteering - it's a very popular technique on motorbikes. The other big help is to drop your inside shoulder (which also makes you "push" the bars slightly) and get focussed on your line through the corner.

The big deal is "relax" and, as one instructor once said to me "imagine you're a stream just finding your way down the hill - take the path of least resistance and work".

fudgey

yes, i learnt countersteering during my direct access motorbike lessons!
works well on anything with 2 wheels.

sherer

Fudgey wrote:

yes, i learnt countersteering during my direct access motorbike lessons!
works well on anything with 2 wheels.

I've heard about this but not tried it out yet.

How much pressure should I put on, worried i'm going to upset the bike when I try this.

fudgey

Depends on how fast you are going really, its a good idea to practice on the flat at slower speeds just to get a feel for it.
But ultimately its just gentle pressure. Dont just give the bars a slap

IShaggy

There are some great tips here - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/descending-tips/

For any current/ex motorbikers new to cycling - pay particular attention to number 3!

frisbee

IShaggy wrote:

There are some great tips here - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/descending-tips/

For any current/ex motorbikers new to cycling - pay particular attention to number 3!

I think 3 is slightly misleading, angulation is more of a mountain bike/motorcross technique, even skiing.

If you watch a pro descending on the road they aren't doing it. A bit of showboating from Cancellara:

https://youtu.be/RxXqQqAc2pA

comsense

Stand beside your bike and lean it towards you. Now try and push it away from you. This gives you some idea how much grip your tyres have. With you on the bike there is actually a LOT more grip. BTW - use good tyres, cheap tyres and fast descending are not 2 things that should be mixed.

Speed - are you nervous of it only when descending? If so get used to riding fast on gentle descents while pedalling hard. Every opportunity you get to ride faster.
When you start to feel nervous do you sit up, move back on the saddle, stop pedalling, lock your arms? Any of these will affect control and stability and may cause a wobble. Even curling your toes in your shoes affects stability. Relaxed but safe hold on bars. Make a decision that you want to improve. Read up on descending and MAKE NOTES. Watch videos online about descending. Make a list of the key points ( like weight on outside pedals, arms relaxed and in drops, looking through corner and where you need to be rather than where you do not want to be...)
Find a safe gentle descent and PRACTICE ONE OF THESE POINTS exaggerating it. After you have done this through your list over a few days find a point on your hill from which you can descend confidently and without braking - even if this is near the end of the hill. Now descend while concentrating on your newly learned skills. As your skills improve so will confidence and before you know it you will be sailing down the entire hill.
All the above was the method I used to overcome years of really poor descending.

One final thing - if you keep telling yourself you are nervous of descents then you will be nervous. If you keep telling yourself you are looking forward to descending and visualise yourself improving you will improve.

FatTed

Read this
http://www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/doidescend.htm

IShaggy

frisbee wrote:

IShaggy wrote:

There are some great tips here - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/descending-tips/

For any current/ex motorbikers new to cycling - pay particular attention to number 3!

I think 3 is slightly misleading, angulation is more of a mountain bike/motorcross technique, even skiing.

If you watch a pro descending on the road they aren't doing it. A bit of showboating from Cancellara:

https://youtu.be/RxXqQqAc2pA

You're seeing a different video to me then - because he certainly is leaning the bike. Imagine a line going from Cancellera's sternum a center of shoulders, and then compare the angle of that line to the his bike as he descends. Here's the first corner from the video -

kingrollo

Use the drops would be my only advice.

But - IMO you become more risk aware as you get older - if fast descending isn't for you - just sit up and enjoy it - its not as if you're getting paid !!!

ravey1981

IShaggy wrote:

frisbee wrote:

IShaggy wrote:

There are some great tips here - http://cyclingtips.com.au/2010/04/descending-tips/

For any current/ex motorbikers new to cycling - pay particular attention to number 3!

I think 3 is slightly misleading, angulation is more of a mountain bike/motorcross technique, even skiing.

If you watch a pro descending on the road they aren't doing it. A bit of showboating from Cancellara:

https://youtu.be/RxXqQqAc2pA

You're seeing a different video to me then - because he certainly is leaning the bike. Imagine a line going from Cancellera's sternum a center of shoulders, and then compare the angle of that line to the his bike as he descends. Here's the first corner from the video -

For a start off he's got his left leg sticking way out, the centre of mass of the bike and rider is way off to the left of a point vertically above the tyre contact patch, making point 3 in the above link way off the mark. There are other forces at play when cornering. Its not only gravity pushing the tyre down but also centrefugal force trying to push the tyre outwards from the corner. As long as that force isn't stronger than the friction of the tyre on the road then the bike won't slide out and you can lean as far as you want. When roads are wet, lean the bike and rider less as you have less grip (friction). Similarly, at higher speeds lean the bike less as the higher the speed through a corner the more outwards force is generated.

The other point I would make to the OP is don't worry too much about how fast you can decend, unless you're racing. Its going to hurt (a lot) if you come off at speed so ride to what you are comfortable with.

RutlandGav

How does your physiological condition interact with your suitability to attempt a fast descent ?

Low blood glucose, adrenaline, endorphins seem to mess with my judgement, I'm wondering if there's any way to stay focused and keep your judgement grounded, or is that like saying you intend to become a better drunk driver through practice.

Last week I went on a ride out to Belvoir castle on my mtb with slicks and triathalon bars. Took me two hours to get there because i kept taking detours, because i was heading into the eye of the wind, and the route was predominantly uphill. The return leg, with the wind and gradient only took an hour (avg speed 16mph not bad for a mtb).

However, about half hour from home i started daydreaming and hit a kerb while on the tri-bars. Crash #1. Bruise on right thigh, pain in ribs (which is still there) but all good because nobody saw it, so jumped back on.

About 15 minutes later I was just starting down this steep, narrow country lane when someone in a Golf GTI overtook me. Soon however, my speed had built so much the gap between us was closing. He entered a blind left hander, I thought, if he can enter the corner at that speed, so can I. Problem was, I hit an undulation in the tarmac just as I was thinking about turning in, which slowed down the process of getting the bike heeled over. The fact that i was on the tri-bars again probably didn't help matters.

Ended up running wide and almost going over the white line - and a car happened to be coming the other way at the very same moment. Realised i was riding like a knob and tried extra hard not to take any other risks for the remainder of the journey, but really i still felt like i was intoxicated ?!

stoveman

Many thanks for all the replies,some intersting points which I will bear in mind.
Have been out trying to focus on finding some decent descents and practise,bonus side to that is it usually involves climbing too which is always good to practise aswell.
I guess it is mainly a case of practise and it will become second nature to speed through the descent.
Phil.