Halfords Bike Hell - Advice Please

chippyk

nferrar wrote:

As others have said it doesn't look like Halfords are to blame on this. I also think it should be obvious if you take the bike without letting them build it up and inspect it (regardless of what skill they have in that area) then you take on responsibility for the build and unless a failure is without doubt a manufacturing issue then you have no comeback.
As for what happened, likely some debris as has also been suggest. A couple of years ago I spent £5k on a bike, built up by Epic Cycles (who are a great shop and I have nothing but praise for them). Second or third ride out on a gravelly stretch of road my rear mech locked and sheared off to, locking the rear wheel in the process. Fortunately the mech bounced off the rear spokes rather than go into the the wheel and cause no end of damage so my repair bill was £15 for a mech hangar (and £25 for a replacement chain just in case). I'm still not 100% sure what caused it but I suspect a bit of gravel flicked up and got caught momentarily in the chain or something (couldn't see any obvious chain damage though or stiff links). What I didn't do is blame it on Epic or a manufacturing defect, sometimes sh*t does just happen.

Epic Cycles, now there's a good bike shop. Along with Ride in Coventry.

the_hundredth_idiot

Just reviving this one to say that the OP has had his story in the Guardian's consumer affairs column:
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/may/31/caught-in-a-cycle-of-frustration-with-halfords

nicklouse

The Hundredth Idiot wrote:

Just reviving this one to say that the OP has had his story in the Guardian's consumer affairs column:
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/may/31/caught-in-a-cycle-of-frustration-with-halfords

and they say what we said.

slowmart

Guardian readers eh!

curto80

You have to admire the guy's tenacity. That's at least two forums and one national newspaper that have given him exactly the same response and he's probably still trying. He clearly genuinely believes he has been wronged. Feel a bit sorry for him to be honest.

Anonymous

Curto80 wrote:

You have to admire the guy's tenacity. That's at least two forums and one national newspaper that have given him exactly the same response and he's probably still trying. He clearly genuinely believes he has been wronged. Feel a bit sorry for him to be honest.

Why? Because he has not got a free repair, or because you think he is a bit of a sado?

He could still try Strasbourg, or even The Hague.

I am a little confused as to what condition bike he actually got though.
Did he get one that Halfords had not touched at all (i.e. a sealed box from factory)? Or one they had unboxed, built, PDI'd and reboxed (with bars/wheel/pedals taken back off) for him to take away/have delivered?

I did not think Halfords could sell a bike without building/checking it.

veronese68

-000LM000- wrote:

Took the bike boxed, put it together myself (handlebars, wheel & seat), fully inspected the rest including bolts, screws etc. I also extensively tested the gears (derailieurs, alignment, chain, cables, etc) and brakes before even riding it.

I'd say that line from the OP is the crux of the matter and no matter how many times he whines or in how many places that is where it all went so wrong.

buckmulligan

Blimey, I think £225 for a replacement frame, parts are labour is very reasonable from Halfords.

I think most people would be pretty annoyed at having that happen on your second ride on a brand new bike, but at the end of the day, he’s just got to suck it up and admit that he’s at least partially (if not wholly) responsible for this mess.

FWIW, my mate had this same thing happen on a new CAAD10 from Evans, only a few rides old, derailleur went into the spokes on a hill, total carnage; they replaced it no questions asked, presumably because they had built it up and knew they'd have to take responsibility for the mechanical integrity of it.

diy

Options:
1 - get the bike independently assessed to determine if the damage could have been caused by faulty parts rather than faulty PDI
2 - issue a letter before action with some bluff and bluster about independent inspection and court costs and counter offer their offer.
3 - check the terms of the cycle to work scheme to see your obligations for damage
4- check house hold insurance etc.. it may be covered.

Nobody here can say if it was a failed part of a failed build/inspection.

If you are going down the route of a claim, then you need to be able to back it up.

Personally I'd see if they were up for a bit of a haggle and then let them repair it.

tangled_metal

OP has gone because he/she has not had the information that suited his view.

Irrelevant what we say or he says it is what Halfords have said. Basically they have the law on their side I think and the offer of half price repair is actually a very good gesture of good will from Halfords.

So this bike is owned by the OP;s employer and the user has an obligation to maintain that bike in working order I believe as part of the scheme (AFAIK all such schemes are basically the same in this requirement). This means the OP has to repair or buy I think, walking away is not an option AFAIK. The OP will have to pay as per the legal contract. Then at the end either return a well maintained bike or pay off the fair market value. If the OP leaves it a wreck then I am sure the scheme will have some recourse to charge what the fair market value is for the working bike in fair condition.

I feel for the OP in that no matter what he does there is a bill coming and not a small one I think. However I do think there is a little bit of front from him/her over the way Halfords is being slagged off on any site he can get his side on. The end of the day he has gone to Halfords for the bike he wanted and then due to hyped up stories of how bad their bike mechanics are has decided to build up the bike.

I bought a Planet X bike but they do the checks and supply it with only a few stages left to do (turn the handlebars, attach pedals,etc.) I still had to adjust the barrel adjuster for the rear mech due to jumping chain. They are a different prospect in that part of their sales model is mail order bikes fully made up apart from bar, stem and seat adjustment with pedal attaching to be carried out by the buyer. If the pedal fell off that would have been my fault, similarly if the bars had rotated down then it would have been my fault. I would not run around the internet slagging Planet X off. BTW Planet X are a great company for service in my small amount of business with them

Anonymous

^ I would have thought the bike has to be built fully and then partly disassembled, rather than never having those parts put on in the first place.

Evans Cycles own scheme (Ride It) is not how you describe.
With their scheme I am pretty sure they 'own' the bike, but have no interest in what you do with it, or charge any additional costs.

diy

Tangled Metal wrote:

OP has gone because he/she has not had the information that suited his view.

Irrelevant what we say or he says it is what Halfords have said. Basically they have the law on their side I think and the offer of half price repair is actually a very good gesture of good will from Halfords.

There is no basis I can see for this to be fact. If you are in a dispute with a retailer you need to treat them as the other side not some independent arbitrator or judge. Ultimately they are in business to make money and they will have assessed the risk of a claim and made an offer of something better for them than the cost of a claim. Nobody can say if the bike was faulty or not from this great distance.

veronese68

diy wrote:

Nobody here can say if it was a failed part of a failed build/inspection.

Agreed, but in agreeing to build it himself he took on responsibility for checking. Not certain of the exact legal details but morally I'd say that is the case.

diy wrote:

If you are going down the route of a claim, then you need to be able to back it up.

Personally I'd see if they were up for a bit of a haggle and then let them repair it.

Agree with both of these. He had a good offer from them but hasn't take it up.

I think this whole thing is a classic case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. He'd heard Halfords are variable in terms of workmanship, but didn't have the skillset to do a better job himself.
A friend of mine did a similar thing. Picked up a bike from Halfords, said he'd build it as I was helping him. Unfortunately he cross threaded a pedal before I got there. Maybe he should have let Halfords build it and then we checked it afterwards. As should the OP.

tangled_metal

Maybe my statement is wrong but he bought the item as stated, not fully built up, then altered it by building it up and in his words checking it (stated it was running well for a certain distance and one ride). I always thought that once you modify the state that you purchase a product then you have a lesser case for redress. If there is a identifiable manufacturing fault in one of the components that could have caused the failure then there is redress. At this stage, based on the OP's comments, Halfords are confident that this is not the case, i.e. there is no evidence to support a production fault to cause this.

I do agree with the earlier comments about the OP having to back up his/her assertion that the fault is with Halfords/Boardman Bikes. This is where I come from with my argument, that if it is just two sides disputing each other then without one side having the "killer evidence" to support their assertions then it is reasonable to expect halfords to be within their rights to not accept liability. Indeed it is remiss of them if they did not resist the claim. If this is right then the offer of half price repair is probably a good deal for the OP as a gesture of good will. The OP does not accept this because he/she can not accept that Halfords are not liable.

I did not know about Evans scheme being different but since this was bought from Halfords I assume that it is like the other schemes. However I can not see anything about maintaining the bike on their relevant website. There is only a statement about accidental damage and theft meaning that the employee still continues paying out. Nothing about what then happens at the end of the scheme. If stolen then there is no bike to return so I wonder if the employee then has to pay out the FMV. If accidentally damaged does this have any affect on the FMV? Perhaps the bike is worth less than the FMV but the employee still has to pay the FMV at the rate that is above the actual value. I really do not know but then after an initial look at the schemes I decided not to go for it myself for various reasons which was a very good decision in the end.

diy

Expressing an opinion is all fine and anyone who takes legal advice from a cycling forum without doing their own research, should expect the same quality of knowledge that would be gained from asking a bloke down the pub or their local plod.

The consumer has some statutory protection. Failures are deemed to be the retailer's responsibility under certain circumstances and the retailer has the burden to show otherwise. Self assembly does not void you statutory rights, though it would transfer some of the responsibility to the consumer.

Nothing I have read says the OP modified the product. What we have here seems to be self assembly. We live in a flat pack, mail order world, properly recognised in consumer law.

In this case the consumer is claiming the product failed, the retailer is claiming the fault was in the assembly. Just because one side says X doesn't make it fact.

Druidor

You built the bike so you are responsible for verifying all components were in a good working order.

Nothing to do with Halfords that it went wrong on your first ride,

pinno

NapoleonD wrote:

I'd sent an angry email of complaint to Wiggle.

Did you get a reply?

veronese68

diy wrote:

Expressing an opinion is all fine and anyone who takes legal advice from a cycling forum without doing their own research, should expect the same quality of knowledge that would be gained from asking a bloke down the pub or their local plod.

Very true. Or as I think it says in someone's sig "Any advice given here is worth what you paid for it."

tangled_metal

Is it the same though? Flat pack is meant to be done by the customer and there are instructions to help them (if they can understand them of course). The bike in this case is not supplied as such, it was meant to be supplied built up with the Halford's list of checks that they do. The OP bought it to build it themselves so probably accepted responsibility for making sure the bike is built right.

If he had found faults with any parts during his inspections he could have returned to halfords for redress. If he had not spotted a faulty part then is it his fault or halfords?

BTW I agree that only taking internet advice on legal matters is not the way to go. Asking opinions is perhaps what the internet forums are about but you have to decide for yourself. So if that is what you do then do not be surprised to get a whole host of different opinions to chose from (or not as your judgement goes). The OP seems to me to have requested opinions across a few online sites but they seem to offer the similar sort of advice. The OP did not like so flounced off (as someone put it).

Who knows what the real situation is as one side only is given. What would happen if the halford's side was presented?? How would people change their views if at all? It does strike me that even with only one side presented most people seem to side not with the OP. Namely to take the offer as that is the best outcome and that he has no evidence/case to win a better one.

reformedfatty

OP was definitely a bit bonkers in their expectations. I've bought two bikes from Halfords and gritted my teeth knowing that their assembly was likely to be substandard, as indeed it was, but that by letting them assemble it I had removed the 'you assembled it wrongly' potential.

I still had to correct the setup of both bikes of course, and the depressing truth is that you shouldn't buy a bike from Halfords if you want to be confident of it being correctly built. Disclaimer : some Halfords employees are actually very good at assembling bikes, in my experience, however, they are greatly outnumbered by those who are not.

diy

Whether you take your bike boxed for self assembly or have them build it for you, you have statutory rights http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

Assembly instructions form part of the contract. Depending on the failure, there are various elements that can be tested ranging from conforming with the contract to being free from minor defects.

If you buy components for a custom build, then it is as Druidor says.

As it happens - bikes are available boxed or built up for free*
http://www.halfords.com/AdviceArticleDi ... Id=1042912

*BSO buyers have to pay a fee on account of the health risk to the mechanic from the mental trauma from working with rubbish and the risk of rusty splinters and shards of poor quality chrome causing injury.

wishitwasallflat

reformedfatty wrote:

OP was definitely a bit bonkers in their expectations. I've bought two bikes from Halfords and gritted my teeth knowing that their assembly was likely to be substandard, as indeed it was, but that by letting them assemble it I had removed the 'you assembled it wrongly' potential.

I still had to correct the setup of both bikes of course, and the depressing truth is that you shouldn't buy a bike from Halfords if you want to be confident of it being correctly built. Disclaimer : some Halfords employees are actually very good at assembling bikes, in my experience, however, they are greatly outnumbered by those who are not.

Spot on - I've now bought four bikes from Halfords (my first cycle to work hybrid and three for the kids) - everyone of them was built up but none particularly well. None of them were dangerous though but all were improve by some adjustment - good rule for Halfords let them build it up but check it yourself and adjust before riding.

awavey

diy wrote:

The consumer has some statutory protection. Failures are deemed to be the retailer's responsibility under certain circumstances and the retailer has the burden to show otherwise. Self assembly does not void you statutory rights, though it would transfer some of the responsibility to the consumer.

Nothing I have read says the OP modified the product. What we have here seems to be self assembly. We live in a flat pack, mail order world, properly recognised in consumer law.

ok I know IANAL so its only my opinion, but statutory protection surely can only cover mechanical manufacturing defects in this case, If Halfords assemble the bike and it lunches the rear mech then fine its their fault, if you accept the risk of assembling the thing yourself, and maybe they shouldnt have allowed that on cycle2work bike, but unless you can claim you are cytech registered, Id say nothing Halfords can do about that, because how can the OP prove they fitted or set it up correctly.

and the fact it was 2nd ride makes no odds IMO, my cycle2work bike came assembled bar the pedals and handlebars,and with a nice checklist of the stuff theyd setup/checked, but it took at least 20 miles before the road bumps/vibrations rattled the subsequent bits Id fitted loose to be a problem, and Im still some 100miles later just keeping an eye on bolts to make sure its ok.

I was once halfway through my cycle commute home and my jockey wheel cage unscrewed itself,I think Id cleaned it recently and put it all back together propely, but hadnt noticed it was loosening itself and it let go in a big way, fortunately it all sprung outwards to the right not left when it let go, although it meant I lost half the bits (very busy road at night I didnt fancy peering around trying to find all the bits)

Ill have to check my cycle2work scheme T&Cs, but I know on similar type hire/purchase car contracts Ive had all mechanical warranties were voided, the moment I did, or allowed anyone other than the garage I bought the car through, to do all mechincal maintainenance on the car, and that included really basic stuff like even changing tyres.

navrig2

diy wrote:

In this case the consumer is claiming the product failed, the retailer is claiming the fault was in the assembly. Just because one side says X doesn't make it fact.

I agree BUT it changes the scenario from almost black and white to a shade of grey which makes it very difficult to say who is at fault. By making the decision to self build the OP effectively relieved Halfords of some of their obligations and liabilities relating to the product sold.

The OP now expects the law to turn that grey situation into black and white. How can that be done without reaching a compromise or unfairly making the side that says X wrong?

I don't think you can. The Halfords offer is the compromise.

Bar Shaker

I would be quite sure that the release papers the OP signed (when he wanted to take the bike without the free PDI or set up) will absolve Halfords of any responsibility.

A bent hanger in shipping is by far the most likely cause of this but if the OP didn't identify it and take the bike back before riding it, then he has no redress for the damage it later caused.

Pay the £400 and learn from your mistake.

MountainMonster

diy wrote:

Whether you take your bike boxed for self assembly or have them build it for you, you have statutory rights http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54

Assembly instructions form part of the contract. Depending on the failure, there are various elements that can be tested ranging from conforming with the contract to being free from minor defects.

If you buy components for a custom build, then it is as Druidor says.

As it happens - bikes are available boxed or built up for free*
http://www.halfords.com/AdviceArticleDi ... Id=1042912

*BSO buyers have to pay a fee on account of the health risk to the mechanic from the mental trauma from working with rubbish and the risk of rusty splinters and shards of poor quality chrome causing injury.

The longer i'm on this forum, the longer I realise you must be a bloody nightmare to have in a store if you haven't gotten your way/something failed.

In the case of the rear derailleur, the reason it got caught in the wheel *could* have been caused by limit screws which were not set up properly. Halfords did not do a PDI on the bike, which partly absolves them of responsibility for failure . The other part that absolves responsibility is the fact that when picking up a bike for self build you sign saying you are now taking responsibility for the quality of the build, and that they do not guarantee the build.

diy

Personally I reckon it was a QR that came undone causing the chain to jam and the mech to crash the spokes.

jgsi

well, in the true spirit of BR
'Be Warned!!!!'
;-)

diy

MountainMonster wrote:

The longer i'm on this forum, the longer I realise you must be a bloody nightmare to have in a store if you haven't gotten your way/something failed.

Normally I can't be ar**d for a few quid. But my approach is always polite and friendly. After all nobody wants to help out a tw*t arguing about statutory rights as loud as he can in a shop. Its all about your powers of persuasion. Car dealers are the only retailers that seem to enjoy a nice day out in the county court in front of a district or circuit judge. The last one I faced off, lasted 35 minutes and spent a chunk of that trying to tell a circuit judge "what the law says".

My point on this thread was that if the OP doesn't like what he's been told then he should get (and probably pay for) an independent opinion before considering his options.

Zerotails99

So much BS in this thread. The drive train comes properly installed when you buy a boxed bike. It's not just bikes, there are many other goods that are sold which requires installation. That does not mean the seller is absolved of his responsibilities. Some stores won't sell you boxed bikes for that very reason.