drive chain gunk

2»

Comments

  • flasher
    flasher Posts: 1,734
    Mage Banan wrote:
    Would be interesting to find out what the well funded teams like Sky use for their chain lubrication.
    Team Sky wrote:
    As the official supplier of Bicycle Care Products to Team Sky, Muc-Off has been working alongside team mechanics to create and develop new technologies that will help improve efficiency and bike performance. From their revolutionary C3 Ceramic Chain Lubes to the first of its kind Uber Wax, Muc-Off’s entire bike care range will make life easier for team riders and mechanics.

    Now whether they actually use it or not who knows!
  • Mage Banan
    Mage Banan Posts: 24
    Interesting. Looks like that contains hexagonal boron nitride (the ceramic) and PTFE. Reading around, boron nitride behaves similarly to graphite as a dry lubricant but without being black. Is there any data to show that oil fortified with ant-friction additives produces less friction or lasts longer? If you look at the Friction Facts data, the additives don't seem to help. They don't add these to motor oil, and that had a lot of research to improve engine longevity and efficiency. Remember that slick-50 ptfe suspension you could add to your engine that had absolutely no effect apart from making your wallet lighter? In fact, extra virgin olive oil is within about 0.3W of the best wax/ptfe mix. See here:

    https://jordancheyne.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/velonews2014-01-pdf-page-002-790x1024.jpg?w=605

    Another link to Friction Facts data here:
    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Best_Chain_Lube_P4543726
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Keezx wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    [CUT
    Add to this, the demands on your chain are minuscule when compared to most other uses for lube. It's just a chain.

    You could not be more wrong.
    The pressure in the hinge points is huge and the stuff needs to stay there or permanently refreshed.,neither of which oil doesn't. You do not seem to know what you're talking about...

    I never use nor have used overpriced stuff in a fancy little bottle....when , in the old days, I used oil, it was engine oil, but I was never happy with it.

    Of coarse you can run a chain with whatever you want and it won't fall apart within 500 miles, but that's not the discussion here.
    BTW, by far the biggest mechanical resistance of bikes is the chain.

    I think you make way more of a simple bike chain than what it is. A car engine won't last long without oil, however I seem to remember as a kid NEVER oiling my bike chain. Left it outside in the rain and snow with out issue. I don't recall ever breaking one. Use what ya want, but to simply say motor oil won't do the job is wrong by a long, long mile.
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    It does the job (I've used ist for years) but there is stuff that does the job as good as without polluting the chainrings/cogs/rest of the bike, and i'm not talking about stuff in small fancy bottles.
    Oil is a good lube for certain purposes, but simply is not very suitable for lubing an open chain.
    The fact that it is a simple chain (with high dynamic mechanical loads) makes lubing complicated, not easier.
  • Mage Banan
    Mage Banan Posts: 24
    Motor oil is certainly good enough for lubricating under the loads placed on a bicycle chain. I have just been looking through the literature on industrial chains and they are generally lubricated with mineral oil of similar viscosity to motor oil. I do not believe that any of the lubricants marketed for bicycle chains perform better than motor oil - it is all voodoo marketing. Motor oil has various additives to cope with the conditions found in a car engine but I can't see how these would affect chain lubrication. Clean motor oil looks, feels and smells like mineral oil. It works, and that is that. I am sure wax works too, but the problem is that re-application is awkward and time consuming. I can clean and re-lubricate an oiled chain in a couple of minutes without taking it off the bike.
  • roux_guy
    roux_guy Posts: 88
    Washing up liquid isn't even going to begin removing clarted on oil. White spirit is used in industry as a metal degreaser, it's basically what white spirit is for. I clean my chains with it and when it's no longer any use it goes to the recycling centre in the paint section.
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    Mage Banan wrote:
    . I can clean and re-lubricate an oiled chain in a couple of minutes without taking it off the bike.

    That's an illusion.
    You cannot clean a chain on the bike, it will LOOK clean but the dirt is in and stays in.
    Maintenance for the eye.
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    Mage Banan wrote:
    Motor oil is certainly good enough for lubricating under the loads placed on a bicycle chain.
    CUT

    It would be if it would stay where it was after application and would flew back in, but it doesn't do that.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Keezx wrote:
    Mage Banan wrote:
    . I can clean and re-lubricate an oiled chain in a couple of minutes without taking it off the bike.

    That's an illusion.
    You cannot clean a chain on the bike, it will LOOK clean but the dirt is in and stays in.
    Maintenance for the eye.

    You make no sense. If dirt can get in it can be washed out and then be washed or wiped away. You make a chain sound like a technical marvel of the 21st century. It's not. Been around a long, long time. I would bet that you're one of those people who seem to think that spending bunches of time cleaning a chain will yield some sort of different result than those of us who simply wipe it down every so often and then re-lube. What sort of results are you expecting from your intense cleaning regime?
  • Mage Banan
    Mage Banan Posts: 24
    Keezx wrote:
    It would be if it would stay where it was after application and would flew back in, but it doesn't do that.

    Oil does stay put - it is continuously redistributed by the moving parts of the chain. If anything, it is wax that is likely to be lost from the chain as it will be rubbed off and lost from the chain. The problem with oil is picking up contamination, otherwise I think it would last for many hundreds of miles between re-applications.
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    dennisn wrote:
    Keezx wrote:
    Mage Banan wrote:
    . I can clean and re-lubricate an oiled chain in a couple of minutes without taking it off the bike.

    That's an illusion.
    You cannot clean a chain on the bike, it will LOOK clean but the dirt is in and stays in.
    Maintenance for the eye.

    You make no sense. If dirt can get in it can be washed out and then be washed or wiped away. You make a chain sound like a technical marvel of the 21st century. It's not. Been around a long, long time. I would bet that you're one of those people who seem to think that spending bunches of time cleaning a chain will yield some sort of different result than those of us who simply wipe it down every so often and then re-lube. What sort of results are you expecting from your intense cleaning regime?

    Well , wiping is absoluteley useless, only the outer plates will shine, but I have no interest in the outer plates.
    You cannot wash the chain on the bike, it has to be submerged in liquid....
    Actually, I do spend less time and effort then with oil based lubing.
    The whole process is so much more pleasant, I can take the chain off the bike without gloves....
    I hope to get the same life from a chain (Campa Record 9 speed 7000 km) as with oil.
    It's just an expiriment , no religion.....

    What does not make sense about this?
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Keezx wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Keezx wrote:
    Mage Banan wrote:
    . I can clean and re-lubricate an oiled chain in a couple of minutes without taking it off the bike.

    That's an illusion.
    You cannot clean a chain on the bike, it will LOOK clean but the dirt is in and stays in.
    Maintenance for the eye.

    You make no sense. If dirt can get in it can be washed out and then be washed or wiped away. You make a chain sound like a technical marvel of the 21st century. It's not. Been around a long, long time. I would bet that you're one of those people who seem to think that spending bunches of time cleaning a chain will yield some sort of different result than those of us who simply wipe it down every so often and then re-lube. What sort of results are you expecting from your intense cleaning regime?

    What does not make sense about this?

    I personally don't care how you do it. Spend 5 hours a day working on a chain! That's up to you. It's just way to obsessive for my tastes. Plus I'd bet your chain won't last any longer than mine. I never take my chain off the bike and, over the years, have had ZERO issues. You however, sound like one of those guys who fixes things until the're broke.
  • nferrar
    nferrar Posts: 2,511
    I don't think anyone's debating engine oil is a good metal on metal lubricant but that still doesn't mean it's a good bicycle chain oil. The oil inside an engine isn't exposed to anywhere near the level of particulate contamination a bicycle chain is, nor is it exposed to the elements. It's also continuously re-lubed whereas oil on a chain is only replenished occasionally.
    As for never lubing the chain on your bike as a kid, true but I'm guessing most of us are doing a fair few more miles on our bikes than we did as a kid and replacement parts are much more expensive hence being more willing to invest a bit more time and effort on maintenance. Stuff looking shiny matter more to :p
    As for the best chain lube, I don't know, I currently have a decent sized collection of expensive (over-priced) bicycle chain lubes. Some are crap (and probably no better than engine oil) some are good, none last for thousands of miles and keep the drive-train shiny-new looking.
    You also have to factor in conditions, wet weather riding puts different demands on your chain lube (you mostly want it to stay on the chain as long as possible and dirt repelling is secondary), dry weather riding you basically want it to repel dirt as much as possible (or just not attract dirt, semantics :p ). You're probably better off with no lube than lube that attracts dirt that quickly turns into a grinding paste and accelerates wear, although it will probably squeak more.
    Having said that, I'm lazy - on my winter bike I rarely maintain the drive-train and prefer to just replace the chain & cassette every year. On my best bike though I'll spend a bit more time and effort making sure it's cleaned thoroughly (not just made to look shiny) and currently prefer lubing with a dry lube with a ceramic component - seems to last well and doesn't attract much dirt. I've been meaning to try a wax lube but as I said, I'm lazy, so haven't bothered yet.
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    dennisn wrote:

    1-I personally don't care how you do it.
    2- Spend 5 hours a day working on a chain!


    1-Why bother posting stupid comments if you don't care.
    2-So you DO care...20 minutes,once in 10 days, in which you can drink a cuppa tea or read your E-mail. while the chain is on the stove. bet you spend more time on your chain, not to mention the time you have to spend on your cassette/chainrings and I don't.
    And your drivetrain is still a mess...
    2w6cwhw.jpg

Categories