Jack of all trades, master of many bikes?

Pauljb12

HI All, I have been reading through your forum for the last couple of months now and thought i would post up and get involved. To introduce, currently i have no bikes and am actually a runner. I have decided i want to get into cycling for a number of reasons. Firstly i would like to train for a duathlon (running and cycling, am not great at swimming), secondly i would like to mix my training up and do something different to keep me fit on a number of levels and thirdly i was thinking i could combine this in as my daily commute to work!

I have been looking at investing in a bike that fits all of those three reasons stated above and am looking to take into your knowledge to see if i can find a one bike fits all for those activities above! To do this i think it would be good if i could get an aero road bike in the hope that i could be fast for my duathlons but also something that is comofortable that i could use to train for the duathlons on the same bike and then from time to time maybe go into work (Not as important). Taking that into mind i have name some bikes below and was wanting to get your thoughts. Also if anyone could comment and let me know what part of the bike i should pay attention to if i am wanting to go for speed. I am looking to sell my motorbike to fund this so will have about 1000 - 1500 to play with.

Thanks for reading

Bikes under consideration

Ribble Aero 883
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bbd/road- ... 3?part=B...

Planet x
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXNANORI ... am-rival...

Boardman 9.0
http://www.boardmanbikes.com/road/air90.html

Felt AR 5 (last year model with 10 spd 105 - new model with 11spd 105 is 1800!)
http://bestbikeproducts.com/m5b36s6p392 ... S_GB/15716

btwin mach 720
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/mach-720-car ... 11471.html

djaeggi

I think you should approach this the other way round....

Cut your budget for your bike and keep some powder dry for bits/upgrades.
Focus on getting a bike that fits (likely via a shop that can give a decent bike fit) and that's comfortable - that way you can rack up the miles, and this will have the biggest impact on your speed. This is really important!
Bits you'll almost certainly need/appreciate from the outset are pedals/shoes, clothing (allowing you to train in variable conditions), saddle.
Bits that give you more bang for buck than an aero frame in the speed department include tri-bars, helmet, wheels, tyres. These can add up! Particularly wheels.

With that kind of budget, I'd suggest £750 for the bike itself. After a year of riding, you might find you want something else/want to upgrade (it's unlikely your first bike will be spot on!) so having less cash tied up in the bike reduces the switching costs. And, who knows, maybe cycling might displace running in your life and your priorities shift ;-).

cycleclinic

Echo the above also dont ignore a bike with mounts for proper mudguards. They can be remived for the dry and fitted for wet road rides/Training. An low cost alloy framed bike with mudguards is still a cpable bike for what you want and it is a jack of all trades. What you are looking at are sportive/race bikes the two i find have blurred lines. Trh getting mudguards in those and you will know what i mean.

iPete

For £1500 and wanting to race competitively I'd personally spend £700-£900 on a bike and the rest on a powermeter and come away with some change.

Ride that through summer and come winter, if you still love it, build up a winter hack for commuting/training.

Alternatively, get a trainer/winter bike now that can be raced on this season. Something like a ribble audax (or other bike that takes mud-guards) and come next year invest in a TT bike.

No definitive answer there I'm afraid

Pauljb12

Thanks for the reply folks.

Food for thought.

So for these 700 - 800 bikes can you point me in the right direction? Any suggestions and anything I should look out for / must have for future upgrading and then what is less important?

Thanks

iPete

Well I decided to glance at them all, after reading this review on the Decathlon site there can only be one winner?

This bike is just so fast. I have had and enjoyed the Triban 3 for two years before upgrading. This bike flys. It has increased my average speed by 6mph. Try it,you won't regret it

Generally speaking, you want to start with a good frame. You can then upgrade bits as they wear out if you want. The most important aspect is just having a bike that fits and you can get into a good aero position on for Duathlon.

Personally (after a quick Google) with that money to spend (and assuming you've got more aside for all the lycra and endless kit that comes with cycling) I like the look of this bike from Rose.
http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/cate ... -14-48280/

Then shop around for a Stages 5700 powermeter, Garmin 500 and get training, all for about £1500.

djaeggi

I'd suggest veering towards a "trainer" and get a frame that can take guards, possibly a rack. This is something that every cyclist would find use for in their stable and makes it more likely you'd use it for commuting: if you upgrade by adding a race-specific bike, then hang onto this one to train on; otherwise, there's a good market for this kind of bike. Genesis make well specced/well thought out bikes for UK usage, something like the Volant or lower-end Genesis Equilibrium? Look for a good frame (that fits!) first and foremost, upgrading bits is easy. The frame itself (despite what the marketing tells you!) is not going to make a material difference to your time in a duathlon at this stage; again, far better that you have something you love to ride and that allows you to ride as much as possible (and then go away and ride it into the ground!), this way you'll make the greatest fitness gains. Buy from a reputable shop if this is your first road bike, not the internet, this way you're less likely to make a mistake (wrong size, poor fit, etc.).

alex222

I would definitely agree with the sentiment above to get something that can easily be turned into a winter trainer. I made the mistake for my first road bike of getting a bike without mudguard mounts.
So I inevitably upgraded and relegated the first bike to winter / commutting duties, and have had to use clip on mudguards. They work okay but would be much easier with a proper winter frame.
As others say if you really enjoy it you are likley to want to spend more so going for a more value option at the start makes more sense in my opinion.

ai_1

I'd generally agree with the first two replies above.

Forget about an aero bike for now. It will make almost no difference to speed and at that budget level it will just compromise your choice of bikes and enjoyment of cycling. I started out on a Specialized Tricross which isn't even a true road bike never mind aero (it's a cyclo-cross/hybrid type) but it did me just fine for road riding and then several adventure races and duathlons. Even at the very top end, there's little lost in using a normal road bike for triathlon rather than an aero one and if you get to that level you'll probably want a proper TT/Tri bike anyway since it's rider position that makes the biggest aero difference and you need a proper TT or triathlon bike with forward seatpost and extension handlebars to optimise this. I think you should buy conservatively and budget some of your money for shoes, pedals, good shorts and tri-suit and maybe a tyre upgrade as the originals are likely to be poor. Also bear in mind that fit is the most important aspect of a new road bike and until you get some experience this will be hard to determine accurately. My position when I started was much more upright than my riding position now. I couldn't have comfortably ridden my current bike 4 years ago. You may be different but don't spend lots on a bike now. Wait and see how you like riding, how you use your bike, what position you find comfortable, etc. Then if you decide a more expensive bike is warranted you'll have a much better idea what you want and what it's worth to you.
In terms of performance a relatively cheap alloy bike with clip-on extensions and a forward offset seatpost will probably be better for duathlon/triathlon than an unmodified high end aero road bike anyway.

If I was you I'd get a standard road bike that's got at least Sora level gears. If your budget is <£1500 I'd spend <£1000 on the bike, probably a decent alloy frame with Sora or Tiagra gears. If you plan to commute then cycleclinics comments regarding mudguard and rack attachment are worth considering. Even if you bought a dedicated tri bike later you'd still want a road bike with mudguards for riding with friends, in the hills or in bad weather.
You'll want to spend some money on a helmet and clothing, especially decent cycling shorts and maybe a tri-suit or shorts for duathlon racing. Then there's gloves, clipless pedals and shoes, lights, water cages and bottles, tyre upgrades if needed, saddlebag, repair kit, pump, mudguards....there will be more!

Thankfully some of your running gear will be equally useful on the bike such as base layers, raincoat (a cycle specific one is more comfy in riding position but a normal running one will do for starters) and you can use running tights over shorts instead of getting cycle tights since winter is nearly over.

craker

Pauljb12 wrote:

Firstly i would like to train for a duathlon (running and cycling, am not great at swimming)

Most triathletes think that they're not great at swimming. On a sprint tri you'll lose ~5 mins against the best swimmers (400 metre swim) and plenty of newcomers lose that in transition.

MTFU and sign up for a tri. I did and I'm usually last out of the pool and then spend 1/2 hour overtaking competitors in the bike stage.

ai_1

iPete wrote:

Well I decided to glance at them all, after reading this review on the Decathlon site there can only be one winner?

This bike is just so fast. I have had and enjoyed the Triban 3 for two years before upgrading. This bike flys. It has increased my average speed by 6mph. Try it,you won't regret it

I think iPete was being sarcastic but in case it's not obvious - the comment about the aero bike increasing this guys speed by 6mph is utter nonsense. If he'd said he got a 0.25mph improvement I'd be sceptical. 6mph is just ridiculous. (Incidentally I'm an engineer and an aerodynamicist so I like to think I have some idea how things work).

ai_1

craker wrote:

Pauljb12 wrote:

Firstly i would like to train for a duathlon (running and cycling, am not great at swimming)

Most triathletes think that they're not great at swimming. On a sprint tri you'll lose ~5 mins against the best swimmers (400 metre swim) and plenty of newcomers lose that in transition.

MTFU and sign up for a tri. I did and I'm usually last out of the pool and then spend 1/2 hour overtaking competitors in the bike stage.

Standard sprint triathlon distance is 750m swim (20km bike, 5km run). There are others with shorter swims but they're less common.
I'll be doing my first one in late April or early May, then an Olympic distance at the end of May and a half Ironman in August. I hope I get better at swimming pretty quick!!!

However, I've done a bunch of duathlons (run/bike/run) and adventure races (various combinations of run/bike/kayak) in the last two years and they're a good challenge and very enjoyable. If you don't fancy the swim then duathlon is perfect.

Pauljb12

Wow. Thanks for some detailed replies. I have to say your advice has been great and really opened my eyes. I suppose wt first I thought an aero road was the best way to go to get biking and compete and also they look cool too! But I see all your points so started look around. As always these new suggestions leads to new questions. So I hope you don't mind some more.

I did take ipetes comment the right way. I was even more interested in the rose bike he suggested. It looks a brilliant bike! Really light too. Lighter than what I have been looking at. The review did raise the question of carbon or alloy. In the review they state that the alloy frame was really light and still stiff. Do you loose that much power transfer on an alloy compared to carbon? Or are alloy getting better? If an alloy frame is lighter than
carbon would it be a better buy? Again I suppose it would be nice to say you have a carbon bike and it seems crazy to buy an alloy when a carbon bike is a similar price.

Again I see your points about buying from a shop to get the fit right. I have heard a wrong fitting expensive bike is worse than a good fitting cheap bike cause up you can't use your power effectively.

In terms of buying a cheaper bike and gear what could I change to improve speed for tri or du? I know tri bars and forward seat. But in terms of wheels or tyres. Is there anything cheap that will give a good performance per pound of money spent.

Does any one have any suggestions of bikes around 800 like you all suggest above? Any comments on the rose above? I know the decathlon Mach 720 is pushing it at 1000 but it has a great spec any thoughts on that? At least I can go round and get a proper fit. Living in Belfast I can always have a look at chain reaction in order to get fitted to a proper bike. I think they have a sale on too?

Pauljb12

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitu ... prod107034

ai_1

A good alloy frame is probably better on all fronts than a poor carbon one. A good carbon frame can potentially be lighter, stiffer and more comfortable but bear in mind that most of the frame is generally only between 12% and 20% or so of the total bike weight, a good alloy frame can be plenty stiff, most of your comfort comes from the position, the saddle, choice of tyres and tyre pressure, not the frame. So in each case the frame is just a contributor and often only a minor one. Unless you're talking a couple of kg in weight difference on a very hilly course it's not even likely to make a measurable difference to performance. Training, position, tyres and clothing will. As I mentioned I got a new bike last year having ridden a Specialised Tricross for the previous 3+years. The new bike is a Canyon Ultimate CF SL (a 7kg bike with carbon frame, Ultegra groupset and approx 1.5kg wheels). It's a far superior bike in most respects, I do really enjoy riding it and I have no regrets about buying it, but it hasn't made me significantly faster. It does I think make a difference on steep climbs due to a weight saving of more than 3kg but for the majority of rides my speed will be much the same. Canyon also do an alloy bike with an otherwise similar specification. If I'd gotten that I suspect I would have experienced all the same benefits, except it doesn't look quite as nice IMO!

As to your query about mods to get more speed in triathlons or duathlons:
For hilly rides there's some benefit in weight reductions but they're minor.
On the flat weight is of very little importance but aero wheels should provide some benefit - again this will be very minor.
Good tyres are probably worth some time, especially if the tyres the bike comes with are poor. Fast tyres will typically have little or no thread, and be quite thin, supple/flexible. There's a compromise between cost, durability and speed. Something like a Continental GP4000s or Michelin Pro4 SC will provide decent speed while still being reasonably durable.
That Vitus bike looks very good for the price. Ultegra 6800 is an excellent groupset and very good spec for that price. Pity the brakes aren't Ultegra too but it's no tthe end of the world.

keef66

"I'd suggest veering towards a "trainer" and get a frame that can take guards, possibly a rack. This is something that every cyclist would find use for in their stable and makes it more likely you'd use it for commuting"

"I would definitely agree with the sentiment above to get something that can easily be turned into a winter trainer"

I did exactly this when I bought my first road bike. I knew it would be my only bike for several years so I chose something I could ride year round. Not so much choice 8 years ago, but the Kinesis Racelight Tk was designed as a winter trainer so it's a fairly racy geometry but it takes long drop brakes / full mudguards with 25mm tyres and has mounting points for a rack. It's a hoot to ride, and I stay pretty clean when riding in the wet / mucky weather. Today's equivalent is the 4S, or if that's a bit pricy, the Racelight T2.

Now I have a carbon bike too the Tk has become a dedicated wet weather bike. I just take whichever bike the weather dictates

iPete

Pauljb12 wrote:

I did take ipetes comment the right way. I was even more interested in the rose bike he suggested. It looks a brilliant bike! Really light too. Lighter than what I have been looking at. The review did raise the question of carbon or alloy. In the review they state that the alloy frame was really light and still stiff. Do you loose that much power transfer on an alloy compared to carbon? Or are alloy getting better? If an alloy frame is lighter than carbon would it be a better buy? Again I suppose it would be nice to say you have a carbon bike and it seems crazy to buy an alloy when a carbon bike is a similar price.

I can't comment specifically on those bikes, you'll have to dig through the reviews. I build my own these days!

To give some more experience, my first roadie was an Allez, I toured, commuted and did Triathlon on it. You can make most bikes work. At the same time the advice from others to get your winter/trainer first is very good, I wish I had. It leaves the option open to get a proper TT rig if you really enjoy duathlon or a nice good weather roadie.

I also wouldn't be that concerned about 'buying speed' yet. Gains are small compared with just getting a TT bike down the road. If you do insist, most gains for your £ are to be found with aero bars, better tyres combined with super light tubes (or latex tubes), a more aero helmet and aero jesery or skinsuit. Frame material is largely irrelevant, nothing wrong with racing on aluminium.

But ultimately the biggest speed gains are going to come from bike fit and training properly. This is where I think adding power down the road can help you get your cycle fitness quicker and race smart. If you've not done any riding yet and are a very strong runner you may be in for a shock as the fitness generally doesn't apply to riding.
Having done Triathlon you see a lot of people focus on 'buying' as much speed as they can but they also often forget the fitness bit. Give me a 'cheap' but capable bike with power over something a bit fancier any day.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/pow ... know-35563
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2012/01/wh ... meter.html

cycleclinic

I think the OP should look at tifosi, kenesis, genesis and other similar alloy framed bikes but almost any alloy framed bike will do the job well, so pick the one that gives you the fit you need for your budget. They are all made in a few taiwanese factories with similar technology. One is not vastly superior to the other. the Keneis frame though is the lightest and the most expensive. Also I know we all like nice bike kit but Shimano Sora works very well and you will change gear just like you would with Shimano ultegra, this coming from a man who has Campagnolo Super record on my main road bike for no other reason than it nice. Still it changes gear much like a cheaper groupset I push the paddle and up the chain goes. It does not make me faster. Your fitness, position, choice of clothing, tyre choice, aero wheels, aero frame dicate your speed. It is in that order as well.

iPete

I think I want one!

http://www.probikekit.co.uk/bikes/kines ... 96907.html?