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ANOTHER wheel thread

dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,979
edited May 2015 in Road buying advice
Thoughts on this wheel build please. They would be for Winter next year.

http://www.merlincycles.com/pair-shimano-5800-hubs-mavic-open-sport-rims-71996.html

If I was to source the parts myself the rims are £40 each and pair of hubs for about £55 so £125 all in seems pretty good.

*Actually, just noticed they aren't Open Pro's but Open Sport's which can be had for £20 a rim.

Posts

  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,779
    It's march, the sun is out and you are being very gloomy
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Mass produced machine built wheel with a build quality to match the price. Do not expect the spokes to be of even tension or the spokes to be at proper tension. They might be of course but that would be more luck than anything else. I think a cheap Shimano wheel has the potential to be more reliable.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Er, these aren't machine built - it says they are handbuilt.

    I'm thinking these could be a decent buy for commuter wheels. No point wearing out good wheels on the commute. I'm too heavy for cheap Shimano wheels.

    Still, it's fair to say these are unusually cheap for handbuilt, so you wonder where the cost cutting is (beyond the Open sport entry level rims).
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,826
    Buy cheap, buy twice. If you're heavy and these wheels are to be used for commuting (they will likely get some abuse) much better off getting a pair of wheels that will last. That means decent hub (105/Ultegra), good solid rim (Open Pro, Archetype etc) and 32 or 36 spokes. Or in other words, the kind of wheel that Harry Rowland would build for you ;-)
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    drlodge wrote:
    Buy cheap, buy twice. If you're heavy and these wheels are to be used for commuting (they will likely get some abuse) much better off getting a pair of wheels that will last. That means decent hub (105/Ultegra), good solid rim (Open Pro, Archetype etc) and 32 or 36 spokes. Or in other words, the kind of wheel that Harry Rowland would build for you ;-)
    OK, so 105 5800 hub - check
    32 spokes - check
    Good solid rim - well, not an open pro but an open sport, the cheaper pinned variety. Check?
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,826
    TimothyW wrote:
    drlodge wrote:
    Buy cheap, buy twice. If you're heavy and these wheels are to be used for commuting (they will likely get some abuse) much better off getting a pair of wheels that will last. That means decent hub (105/Ultegra), good solid rim (Open Pro, Archetype etc) and 32 or 36 spokes. Or in other words, the kind of wheel that Harry Rowland would build for you ;-)
    OK, so 105 5800 hub - check
    32 spokes - check
    Good solid rim - well, not an open pro but an open sport, the cheaper pinned variety. Check?

    I don't know the rim so can't "check" that but assuming the components are OK...a lot depends on how the wheel is built. Get a poor wheel builder and you'll get crappy wheels that won't last and break spokes frequently. Good wheel builders won't build using inferior components and will provide some kind of warranty, its a win-win all round.

    A bit puzzled by some sums above working out the costs since you included hubs and rims only. You then have spokes and build on top which would be £90 a pair give or take. And if you're looking at this kind of build/cost, my advice would be to call Harry (or someone else of equal reputation) and have him build you a pair.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,979
    They'd be my sums.

    Point I was trying to make was: it's £40 for pair of rims, £55 for pair of hubs = £95 and they are selling the built wheels for £125.

    Add your £90 for spokes and build to the £95 and £125 seems like a good deal...depending on build quality of course.
  • drlodgedrlodge Posts: 4,826
    Yes, those wheels are certainly "cheap" but whether they represent "good value" I'm not so sure. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
    WyndyMilla Massive Attack | Rourke 953 | Condor Italia 531 Pro | Boardman CX Pro | DT Swiss RR440 Tubeless Wheels
    Find me on Strava
  • Rocketm0nRocketm0n Posts: 14
    Merlin have a pretty spotless reputation as a retailer.viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12691614&hilit=Merlin
    They're unlikely to risk an excellent reputation by employing an in-house wheel builder who doesn't cut the mustard.
    These days cheap is no longer synonymous with poor quality as in "cheep and cheerful". There are lot's of genuinely good deals around.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    I've taken the punt - as you say, Merlin have an excellent rep, and these wheels have nothing but 5 star reviews already (perhaps all submitted by 9 stone weaklings but we shall see!).

    I'll post up my thoughts in a week or two.....
  • DKayDKay Posts: 1,652
    TimothyW wrote:
    I've taken the punt - as you say, Merlin have an excellent rep, and these wheels have nothing but 5 star reviews already (perhaps all submitted by 9 stone weaklings but we shall see!).

    I'll post up my thoughts in a week or two.....

    I used to weigh 9 stone and was able to bench 100kg on a good day.....but then I took up cycling. :D
  • BordersroadieBordersroadie Posts: 1,052
    Dinyull wrote:
    Thoughts on this wheel build please. They would be for Winter next year.

    http://www.merlincycles.com/pair-shimano-5800-hubs-mavic-open-sport-rims-71996.html

    If I was to source the parts myself the rims are £40 each and pair of hubs for about £55 so £125 all in seems pretty good.

    *Actually, just noticed they aren't Open Pro's but Open Sport's which can be had for £20 a rim.

    Looks like a bargain to me, nowt wrong with Open Sports, why trash a better rim in winter?

    My local (very well respected) wheel builder has tiny overheads and charges £20 per wheel to build (including lifetime truing), so with some bulk discounts on parts (which Merlin obviously gets), your calculations still leave more for the builder than my local guy gets.

    If they do end up needing truing then they're still a bargain. Go for it I'd say.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    I finally rode my first commute on the new wheels this morning, so far very happy.

    No pings or any other spoke noises from them on setting off, which would suggest that they have been stress-relieved and so have been hand built by someone reasonably competent. Pinging the spokes by hand suggests a fairly high, even tension on the spokes, certainly no cause for concern.

    Obviously 11 miles isn't much of a test, but I'm over 100 kilos and did at one point have to drop down a curb (suffice it to say I was as gentle as I could be, I don't want to test my brand new wheels that much!) and at the end of the ride they were still bang on true.

    It's hard to say much about the ride quality as this was the first time on my carbon steed in a few weeks, I certainly didn't have any cause for concern, seemed light and nimble, just like I'd expect.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,779
    TimothyW wrote:

    Obviously 11 miles isn't much of a test, but I'm over 100 kilos and did at one point have to drop down a curb (suffice it to say I was as gentle as I could be, I don't want to test my brand new wheels that much!) and at the end of the ride they were still bang on true.

    I spent all winter jumping down a foot high concrete ramp on my canal-path commute into work... I have worked the stem clamp to exhaustion and had to bin it, but the wheels are fine... :wink:
  • Origami02Origami02 Posts: 147
    TimothyW wrote:
    I finally rode my first commute on the new wheels this morning, so far very happy.

    No pings or any other spoke noises from them on setting off, which would suggest that they have been stress-relieved and so have been hand built by someone reasonably competent. Pinging the spokes by hand suggests a fairly high, even tension on the spokes, certainly no cause for concern.

    Obviously 11 miles isn't much of a test, but I'm over 100 kilos and did at one point have to drop down a curb (suffice it to say I was as gentle as I could be, I don't want to test my brand new wheels that much!) and at the end of the ride they were still bang on true.

    It's hard to say much about the ride quality as this was the first time on my carbon steed in a few weeks, I certainly didn't have any cause for concern, seemed light and nimble, just like I'd expect.

    Sounds good, I never ceased to amazed by the bargains out there for us cyclists these days ! I've bought lot's of stuff from Merlin over the years and you really just can't fault them......
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    TimothyW wrote:

    Obviously 11 miles isn't much of a test, but I'm over 100 kilos and did at one point have to drop down a curb (suffice it to say I was as gentle as I could be, I don't want to test my brand new wheels that much!) and at the end of the ride they were still bang on true.

    I spent all winter jumping down a foot high concrete ramp on my canal-path commute into work... I have worked the stem clamp to exhaustion and had to bin it, but the wheels are fine... :wink:
    You are Roger de Vlaeminck and I claim my five pounds

    INH_De_Vlaeminck_geeft_veldrittraining_Het_Laatste_Nieuws_Honor+%C2%AE_Willems.jpg
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,779
    TimothyW wrote:
    You are Roger de Vlaeminck and I claim my five pounds

    Au contraire... never owned a Gios, but I do own a beautiful red Sannino... when I was at Gios' workshop in Volpiano last, 3-4 years ago, Marco, the son of the legendary Aldo, told me that in the early 80s Mr Sannino used to steal their highly skilled frame builders, by offering better wages...

    Legends and stories of the pre-mass production days... always entertaining
  • CrozzaCrozza Posts: 991
    TimothyW wrote:
    INH_De_Vlaeminck_geeft_veldrittraining_Het_Laatste_Nieuws_Honor+%C2%AE_Willems.jpg

    who's that bloater on the right? :lol:
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 26,779
    Crozza wrote:
    TimothyW wrote:
    INH_De_Vlaeminck_geeft_veldrittraining_Het_Laatste_Nieuws_Honor+%C2%AE_Willems.jpg

    who's that bloater on the right? :lol:

    The Fat-so is Eddie of course
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Bah, second day out on them yesterday (saving them for good weather, more fool me!) and the rear has two slack spokes (and obviously difficult to judge but the rest now look loose also), what a disappointment.

    In two minds whether to take up the free return to Merlin or just take the rear to my LBS for a proper tension & true.

    I can't help but think if they couldn't get it right the first time, why would they manage it the second....

    Any opinions?
  • Origami02Origami02 Posts: 147
    Give Merlin a ring and see what they say. I had a similar thing with the rear wheel of one set of Hope hoops just after getting them, and Hope agreed to pay the for LBS to fix it. Turned out it only cost a tenner.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    The cause i probably insufficent tension, eneven tension or improper stress reliving. If there is not enough tension in the spokes it will cost a bit more than a tenner for a true.

    If it simply trued then it could go out again. Take it to an LBS that knows how to build a wheel and let them sort it or return to Merlin and buy something else. Cheap wheels like this are built quickly on a budget there is no way Merlins wheel builders can put the time needed into the wheel also the open sport rim is very flexible which doesn't help. I for example will not build with this rim as I have found it to be a bit rubbish and prone to going out of round.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • Origami02Origami02 Posts: 147
    TimothyW wrote:
    Bah, second day out on them yesterday (saving them for good weather, more fool me!) and the rear has two slack spokes (and obviously difficult to judge but the rest now look loose also), what a disappointment.


    Any opinions?

    How far out of true has it gone ? Presumably if the spoke tension is way off, it should be looking a bit like a Pringle with a 100+kg rider. (Not knocking your weight in any way, just trying to get a picture of how far the wheel is off)
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Origami02 wrote:
    TimothyW wrote:
    Bah, second day out on them yesterday (saving them for good weather, more fool me!) and the rear has two slack spokes (and obviously difficult to judge but the rest now look loose also), what a disappointment.


    Any opinions?

    How far out of true has it gone ? Presumably if the spoke tension is way off, it should be looking a bit like a Pringle with a 100+kg rider.
    It's not horrific - the wheel still goes round but it does stop on hitting the brake pads if I just spin the wheel by hand.

    To my inexperienced eye it looks like it needs further work beyond just tightening up the two slack spokes (otherwise I might have just done so myself).
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