Gear Cables

ayjaycee

Not sure whether to put this in Buying Advice or Workshop as it covers both but here goes....
I have just noticed that the rear gear cable on my 10 speed Shimano Tiagra equipped Specialized Allez Elite has got a 'kink' in it (sorry if that's not the right word!) and, although the shifting is smooth enough, I thought it might be time to change it before any problems appear (and, while I'm about it, the front one as well). I was therefore looking for any advice on what cables to buy. My usual approach when buying relatively low value, but very important replacement parts, is never to skimp and I was therefore veering towards the Shimano Ultegra 6800 cable set available from Chain Reaction at £24 which have been recommended elsewhere on the forum (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... lsrc=aw.ds) but does anyone have any other recommendations please? Also, looking at the specs, I can't see any reason why the Ultegra cables would not be compatible with my Tiagra setup but can anybody comment?
Although I have never done it before, I have looked at various videos on line and the job looks simple enough, particularly as the cables from the Tiagra shifters are external to the bar tape but can anybody advise of any potential pratfalls that I ought to be aware of.
Thanks in advance.

crikey

You can buy expensive gear cables or buy cheap ones.
Given that you are re-cabling Tiagra, I think the best thing to do is try with new cheaper cables first. I suspect that the new cable feel will be more than enough to convince you and if you don't agree, you can try the Ultegra cables later.

Top tip; if you live near to civilisation, go there and find your nearest clas ohlson store. They sell Shimano branded cable sets for about £8.

http://www.clasohlson.com/uk/view/COSto ... oreLocator

Or order on line..

Manc33

I never had a problem with Clark's cables and they are about £2 a cable.

wotnoshoeseh

I wouldn't get the Clarks cables. I got a set and was not impressed by their performance - fitted to a 2300 / Sora set up.

The other thing I would advise is that you invest in a good set of cable cutters - ordinary pliers will cut the cable but will leave frayed ends etc.
If you can source the Shimano cables cheaply then use the savings to invest in a decent set of cable cutters.

trailflow

For value Jagwire Stainless cables are hard to beat. £1.99 each on ebay with free delivery. Choose stainless and avoid galvanised.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JAGWIRE-Inner ... 35df5d9e36

Also CRC currently have Shimano SP41 outer on offer for £1 for 600mm pre cut lengths with end caps.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... lsrc=aw.ds

Buy 9 (to get free delivery ) and you have enough for 3 bikes. So plently of spares for the future.

Or for £14.99 you could buy 30 meters of outer that would probably last you more than 10 years
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TOJWPGO/jo ... uter-cable

iron-clover

As above I would probably not go for those Ultegra cables for now- especially if you only want to replace the gear cable. At that kind of price range I'd be going for the Jagwire Pro kit personally. Also, if it's just one small piece of cable outer and inner that is the problem then either of these options will be like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

As mentioned above the Jagwire cables on e-bay are good value, and will be more than good enough for what you need. The housings are pretty good even if you do end up replacing the inners with Lifeline coated ones in the end. I've used one of these kits to re-wire my TT bike last year and it all works fine.

I'd also echo the point about descent cable cutters- I finally bought a pair before re-wiring my TT bike and the whole process is a lot easier- especially when it comes to the cable outers where a clean cut is fairly essential.

Manc33

I got those black coated "XTR" cables and wasn't that impressed. I got it mainly for the ferrules it has in the kit. :oops: Thing is the more they waterproof the ferrules the more friction it causes.

desweller

Manc33 wrote:

I never had a problem with Clark's cables and they are about £2 a cable.

After the litany of shifting problems you've littered this board with over the last year I think I'll take a pinch of salt with that one.

To the OP: You don't have to go mad on the price, just make sure you get stainless inner cables. The Shimano SP41 outer housing is pretty good stuff. The other thing you'll need is a good pair of cable cutters.

Manc33

Are there any better cutters than the Park ones because even those have managed to fray a few cables, you've got to sort of catch it out when you cut it.

DKay

My Park Tools cutters do a great job. No fraying at all.

desweller

I have a pair of Icetoolz cutters from St John's Street. They do the job fine.

scott_w1987

Manc33 wrote:

Are there any better cutters than the Park ones because even those have managed to fray a few cables, you've got to sort of catch it out when you cut it.

I've been using knipex ones for a little while now and they are very good! After doing a good bit of research online it seems lots of people have used them in bike workshops for many years where expensive cycle branded ones have failed and failed again...

They aren't really any more expensive than cycle branded ones either and they are made by a company that knows how to make pliers and cutters!

http://www.tradetoolshop.com/knipex-wir ... oCz1zw_wcB

I'll let you know how they are in 4 years time

As for cables, I just recently put a set of jagwire road pro cables on my winter/wet bike and it is a really good kit for the money, good cable feel and all the bits that are included are good quality. I'm going to buy another to the replace the shimano cables on my good bike!

I managed to get a black kit for £21 delivered in December but the link below is the cheapest I can find. Unless you want a blue kit which is on ebay for £22...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jagwire-Road- ... 0797158183

Manc33

"Bad Gateway 404"

Manc33

The "XTR" cable kit I got was only £10.99 (RRP £35) but I wasn't impressed with it.

The SP41 housing in that kit is the same stuff that came with my flat bar Claris 2400 shifters and those are entry level, so I am not sure what's "XTR" about the kit, the black cables I guess, or the ferrules.

scott_w1987 wrote:

They aren't really any more expensive than cycle branded ones either and they are made by a company that knows how to make pliers and cutters!

I keep finding the best stuff is usually only made by a company where that one thing is all they make.

Thomson seatpost, Selle SMP saddle... but beware of expensive imitations.

You could argue Park Tools only make bike tools... but they make dozens of different products, not just one. I wonder what the very first thing they made was, a bike stand I think. :oops: No bike stands existed so they made one and the rest is history.

MisterMuncher

Thomson make stems, handlebars and bikes, and a range of small hardware bits.

trailflow

Thomson make stems, handlebars and bikes, and a range of small hardware bits.

They also make aerospace parts.
http://www.lhthomson.com/

Manc33

OK two things - stems and seatposts, but thats about it. Thomson might make bike frames but they only just started doing and aerospace parts hardly apply to cycling.

My point was don't buy stuff off companies that are just manufacturing things for the sake of it and instead, go with one that is trying to give you a working product. This especially applies to seatposts since there are so many crap designs about that don't work properly.

MisterMuncher

Like all your bold assertions then, you don't actually mean what you say, but some special version that exists only in your head. You like companies that just make one thing, except when they don't, but also recommend Clarks?

How would one know if a company is making stuff "for the sake of it" vs just being good at several working products? Lezyne or BBB, for example, have diverse but extremely functional product lines. Shimano make fishing tackle.

DKay

I would like some examples of companies (and I quote) "that are just manufacturing things for the sake of it", as it seems a very interesting business model.

Manc33

I would think a Tourney or Altus derailleur falls under the category of "manufactured for the sake of it" yes. It is manufactured to make a profit and to hell with how long it lasts or if it works, even when new.

You guys seem to deal only in absolutes, I only said "I keep finding the best stuff is usually only made by a company where that one thing is all they make."

"usually"

MisterMuncher

Then you cite two examples, one of which is wrong. "Usually" doesn't mean "half the time".

desweller

MisterMuncher wrote:

Then you cite two examples, one of which is wrong. "Usually" doesn't mean "half the time".

Don't get drawn in. The guy clearly can't cope without believing there are patterns in everything; the idea that there might be situations where it's not useful to attempt to find a rule is not something he'll cope with.

Matthewfalle

Manc33 wrote:

I keep finding the best stuff is usually only made by a company where that one thing is all they make.

Shimano also make fishing rods. Kawasaki make power stations and motorbikes. I don't have a problem with using either of their products.

Back to the point - I use the basic Shimano inner and outer kits (maybe £12 down the LBS) - do the job perfectly.

I've also got ridiculously expensive Gore ones on the race bike but wouldn't do it again - shifting is no better than the standard Shimano stuff and for the cost of it you can buy 3 or 4 Shimano kits.

I've also used Dura Ace branded kits - no difference from the basic ones apart from the outer is grey and it costs more.

MisterMuncher

The new coated Shimano cables are very nice but probably not really worth it. The slight lift in performance doesn't justify the cost over more typical cables for a Tiagra setup. If you could get them cheap, though, jump at it.

ayjaycee

So, to sum up, some people seem to recommend NOT buying the Ultegra cables but do not mention having used them thus basing the recommendation on actual experience, some recommend a particular brand of relatively cheap cables whereas others say don't touch those same cables and the Jagwire cables seem to be winners in the popularity contest (but, from my perspective, it's a pity that they only seem to be available as complete sets for gears / brakes). Oh, even the most innocent question seems to be able to degenerate into a bitching competition (but thanks to the last poster for at least ending with a useful point).
Does anybody else have anything constructive to contribute please, preferably in response to the original questions.

keef66

I just run my gear cables till they gunk up, fray or break. (My 105 RH shifter seems to chew up the cable after a couple of years) If yours are functioning properly I'd just leave them alone until they do require attention.

Then, or sooner if you insist, replace inner and outer cables with the standard Shimano stuff out of the big box at the bike shop. Or on line if cheaper & you can wait. SP41 outer and stainless inners.

Pay careful attention to the cut ends of the outers; get them clean and square and not squashed in any way. Use ferrules where required and fit end caps to the inner cables when adjusted and trimmed. I always give the inner wire a drop of 3-in-1 oil before threading into the outer cable; no idea if it helps at all but it gives me a nice warm feeling.

mamba80

ayjaycee wrote:

So, to sum up, some people seem to recommend NOT buying the Ultegra cables but do not mention having used them thus basing the recommendation on actual experience, some recommend a particular brand of relatively cheap cables whereas others say don't touch those same cables and the Jagwire cables seem to be winners in the popularity contest (but, from my perspective, it's a pity that they only seem to be available as complete sets for gears / brakes). Oh, even the most innocent question seems to be able to degenerate into a bitching competition (but thanks to the last poster for at least ending with a useful point).
Does anybody else have anything constructive to contribute please, preferably in response to the original questions.

i fitted the 9000 gear cables to a DA7900 set up (internal cabling) and it made a big difference, the shifting almost on par with 9000/6800 gear systems.
there was nothing wrong with the 7900 cables, so it is down to the decrease in friction.

imho the 6800 cables would make a bigger difference on a cheaper set up like Tiagra and £24 is hardly going to break the bank.

trailflow

So, to sum up, some people seem to recommend NOT buying the Ultegra cables but do not mention having used them thus basing the recommendation on actual experience, some recommend a particular brand of relatively cheap cables whereas others say don't touch those same cables and the Jagwire cables seem to be winners in the popularity contest (but, from my perspective, it's a pity that they only seem to be available as complete sets for gears / brakes). Oh, even the most innocent question seems to be able to degenerate into a bitching competition (but thanks to the last poster for at least ending with a useful point).
Does anybody else have anything constructive to contribute please, preferably in response to the original questions.

keef66

Funnily I thought the opposite. Tiagra doesn't have under bar tape routing so unless the bike has convoluted internal cabling I'd have thought the slicker polymer coated cables would make for only a slight improvement.

If the OP were asking about say 5700 then I'd say it would be well worth a punt.

Manc33

I think a lot of this "Teflon coated" stuff is bunk.

I have had the Teflon coated ones myself recently and shifting was no different, the only difference was the cables were way more expensive than ones like Clark's that perform just the same.

ayjaycee

Thanks to all who put forward constructive advice but I think I will have to make my own decision given the various conflicts in that advice. The comments on investing in good cable cutters were rather more helpful as it is something that I had not considered before and I now plan to order up a set of the Ultegra cables and Park Tools cutters. Fitting the aforementioned cables will not do any harm and, as I said in the original post, I consider any cost difference to be negligible. As for Park Tools, their kit generally seems to be of a high standard and with the amount of use that I will likely put them through I can't really see how I could go wrong.
Again. thanks for the advice to those who offered it - much appreciated.