46/36 Chainset for Road, would you?

stevie63

Currently putting together my build list for my next road bike and I am considering the Chainset. For the last few years I have been running a 50/34 with a 12-25 cassette. What I tend to find is the gears that I like to use overlap from the little ring to the big ring and I end up spending a lot of time either shifting between the 2 rings or just going a bit slower or spinning my legs because I can't be bothered to go to the big ring for a minute to then need to drop back again.

Looking at the Sheldon Gear calculator I notice that if I was to go for an Ultegra 46/36 that at 90 rpm (I average between 90-100) the top speed for 46-11 (I am going 11-28) is similar to my 50-12 but that I can run on the 46 ring from 15mph upwards without needing to cross chain. This would probably mean that I can spend 75% of my time on the big ring. In addition the drop from big to small and back is 28% instead of of 47%. To me it looks like the perfect range and TBH I am not sure why this is not specced as standard on bikes. Or am I just being an idiot, please feel free to tell me if I am.

dodgy

It's good that you've looked at the facts using gear ration calculations on Sheldon's.

Anyway, I've always liked 50x34, but my latest wet weather bike has 36/46 with 11-28, I thought that I'd see how it went and eventually upgrade to a 50x34. After riding around on it for a month or more, I realise that the 36x46 is fine, an added benefit is that I'm using a wider variety of cogs on the cassette compared to a 50x34, which should mean I will get more mileage.

earthvspace4XTuUWcX

Yes Ive used 46/36, and now on the winter bike currently trying 44/34. personally I dont like the 50/34 on a normal compact.

ugo.santalucia

I use 46/36 on a road bike... which is great as I can finally use the <14 T sprockets making it a proper range!

How Far is too Far

No problem using 36/46 I even use a 42t single front on my CX bike with Force CX1 and can do big miles at a good pace.

964cup

I have 46/36 on my winter bike and a single 46 chain ring on my commuter. The winter bike has an 11-28 and I have no problem keeping up with fast groups or tooling about in town. The commuter has an 11-32 and for me that's actually all the gear range I need for commuting; I have also happily used it for chat laps at RP.

bendertherobot

Yep. Add me as another who really likes it

cookeeemonster

36/46 is great for commuting, I found the same as you with a 34/50.

But having said that I'm single speeding my 36/46 bike due to having bought one with 36/52 chainset

Basically I know I'll adapt to whatever I ride more or less

ctc

My new bike is specc'd with 46-36 11-28 for exactly same reasons as you. Hopefully should be arriving in the next couple of weeks...

Cannock Chase

Fully agree with others. I replaced my compact with a Shimano 105 cyclocross 46/36. Excellent. Would also like manufacturers to realise that not everyone wants or needs a 11t small sprocket. Something like a ten speed 13/30 or 14/30 would be good for my 64 year old legs. We are not all like Tony Martin...!!

ugo.santalucia

Cannock Chase wrote:

Fully agree with others. I replaced my compact with a Shimano 105 cyclocross 46/36. Excellent. Would also like manufacturers to realise that not everyone wants or needs a 11t small sprocket. Something like a ten speed 13/30 or 14/30 would be good for my 64 year old legs. We are not all like Tony Martin...!!

This is very true... until 10 years ago all you could buy was gear ratios used by PROs, completely ridiculous for someone who has half the watts. Then came the 50 x 34, which was nice, but the 14 T drop meant constant trimming of the rear and the occasional chain drop... I think 46/36 front is adequate for the vast majority of amateurs and a 30-32 T rear is nice for steep climbs. 11 T is completely useless and 12 T is useless for the vast majority.
Even with a 46 front, I rarely use the 13 T

DeVlaeminck

I think it all depends on the individual and the bike. Personally I think 46x12 is too small a gear for going out with training groups. The regular weekend ride I do there is a long main road descent where we are routinely lined out at over 40mph - same on our chaingang where a downhill section can hit that if there is a tailwind - with 20 gears there should be scope to cope with that and whilst most of us can spin up to 140 plus how many can put useful power down for an extended period at that ?

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I think it all depends on the individual and the bike. Personally I think 46x12 is too small a gear for going out with training groups. The regular weekend ride I do there is a long main road descent where we are routinely lined out at over 40mph - same on our chaingang where a downhill section can hit that if there is a tailwind - with 20 gears there should be scope to cope with that and whilst most of us can spin up to 140 plus how many can put useful power down for an extended period at that ?

Well, I suppose if you still push on your pedals on a 40 mph descent, then I suppose you need a big gear, but realistically, who does? I don't... regardless of the gears, there is a speed at which the act of pedalling makes the bike unstable and that is not far off 40 mph

To give you a similar situation... yes, you can buy a 4x4 in Essex, so that once every five years when it snows more than 3 millimetres you feel the king of the road, if you don't get stuck in a road jam...
Or you can buy a normal car, which uses less fuel and it's more practical for the rest of the time...

DeVlaeminck

It isn't every 3 years though it's rides we do week in week out where people are pedalling at 40mph. The A621 into Baslow, Froggat to Calver crossroads - these are descents where with any kind of tail wind you are pedalling over 40mph to keep in contact with the people I ride with and they are both descents that feature on the regular routes we do. What can I say - I don't think we are exceptional - these are just typical training groups - I can see that those who don't do that kind of riding may think I'm exaggerating but when you get a decent sized group with some strong first and second cats in there lining it out you can hit some decent speeds.

Each to their own - I find a 50*36 is OK - a bit small at times but it does me for racing and the Marmotte or Fred Whitton - others prefer a standard double, others 46*36. When a post asks why 46*36 isn't standard I'm just giving a reason why not - it's too small a gear for many.

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck wrote:

When a post asks why 46*36 isn't standard I'm just giving a reason why not - it's too small a gear for a minority.

FIFY

bendertherobot

I think descending is probably not the best reasoning. I think my max freewheeling is 50 and I do 40 on a downwards stretch most days.

If you're in a peleton week in week out then 50 is better, probably 53.

I do think though, that there is a bit of a groundswell now towards bikes for normal riders for everyday. So we may start seeing less of the racing double carbon bike for weekend warriors and a move towards 46t chainrings, discs, 28c tyres etc.....

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

So we may start seeing less of the racing double carbon bike for weekend warriors and a move towards 46t chainrings, discs, 28c tyres etc.....

I wouldn't be surprised if legislation targeted towards chain gang type riding and stuff was on the way. It is OK in Europe where roads are wide, but over here even the A 40 is the size of a country lane as you get outside London. In fact in some stretches of the A 40 you will find that you have to stop to give way to cars coming the opposite direction. How this road network can support a growing number of large groups of cyclist riding 2-3 abreast is beyond me. I know 2 abreast is legal, but the law was made at a time when that wasn't a problem...

crikey

Eh?
So we should all bow down to the mighty motorist?

Edited; I should be more polite!

First.Aspect

I need a longer gear than my current 50x12 (I mis-ordered my most recent cassette :oops: ). We have a couple of v.long hills up here which are only 4-6% but can feel like twice that against the prevailing wind. With the wind at your back, 70+kph for sustained periods is routine. Personally I need to keep the legs turning over on these descents or, by the time I'm at the bottom, I'll have seized up. A 50x12 means I top out in the mid-60s when pedalling at a comfortable cadence. A 50x11 is perfect - slightly longer than a 52x12, which was specced on road bikes for years.

I agree that the 34T is of less use than a standard 39T (which I what I used to ride in 90% of the time), but I stopped caring as soon as I got hold of the latest Shimano front deraileur. I have Di2 on the other bike.

Front shifting with either of these is a revelation, it really is, and I've noticed that I use it to avoid crossing the chain now without even noticing.

Bordersroadie

A regularly used bike for me has 46-34 and I MUCH prefer it over 50-34 for the reasons the OP stated at the start, where I was always seeming to want small-small or big-big.

The loss of top gear is a non-issue with an 11-28 cassette, if I recall correctly 50-12 is very close to 46-11.

Much of road cycling gear is about sheep being led by the shepherds (AKA the Marketing men and women) but if you use your brain (as you have) you can actually buy what is best for you, not what is the most convenient for the manufacturers.

stevie63

Seeing as most of the replies have said that they have used and prefer the 46/36 or similar, why are they not specced as standard? I honestly thought when I posed this I would get the usual you need to Man up replies, but I am staggared by the amount who have come to the same conclusion. The reality is that the majority of amatuer cyclists will average between 15 and 20 mph and which is the ideal range for both the 36 and the 46 rings but is in no mans land on both the 34 and 50 rings.

In terms of spread of gears paired with an 11-28 it is similar (actually slightly lower to slightly higher) to a 50/34 with a 12-25. The only downside is the Ultegra 46/36 does not use the same hollow forged outer rings as the other cranksets and also costs slightly more. How that affects their performance I have no idea.

alan_sherman

I wish Shimano would do a triple for 11 speed 105. A 39 ring is lovely for normal speeds.

I change my compact chainsets to 36 inner immediately due to your ideas above. I think a 46 outer for commuting would be great. I nearly bought a 48 when my 50 wore out. Probably should have, although a 46 might be a bit small on group rides (I use a 12 cog cassette)

Cannock Chase

Cannock Chase wrote:

Would also like manufacturers to realise that not everyone wants or needs a 11t small sprocket. Something like a ten speed 13/30 or 14/30 would be good for my 64 year old legs. We are not all like Tony Martin...!!

Just to clarify my words above, I'm not saying at all that there shouldn't be cassettes with an 11t or 12t small sprocket. What I am saying is that somewhere within the great range of cassette ratios there should be ones for the more leisurely rider. If I find myself spinning out on 46x14 then I freewheel. Nowadays I'm a plodder not a racer.

kettrinboy

Ive got a 46/36 combo on my Spesh Venge Expert , it came with the now common 52/36 but not being a powerful rider I found I only used the same 4 cogs on the big ring most of the time so I got hold of a 46 ring and tried that and its much better for me , I can stay in the 46 for far longer on a ride than I could the 52 and use nearly all the cogs now , a top gear of 46/11 is still good for around 50 mph for the few seconds I could hit that downhill , the Shimano 6800 FD on my bike can just about handle a 46 ring as its right at the bottom of its movement in the frame and gives a gap of 7-8 mm between cage and teeth , should ideally be 2-3 mm but it now shifts perfectly after some fiddling with the position of the FD , before it could throw the chain if you shifted in certain positions.

markos1963

Certainly agree with a lot said before. Most of us don't need much bigger than a 46. I do use a 55 on my TT bike but that is for a specific reason, a straight chainline at normal race speed. At the other end of the spectrum I love the triple on my commuter and find the 39 ring very useable. Perhaps a triple might be the best way to go for many?

keef66

I just fitted a 46/36 chainset on my wet weather bike. Front mech is a little higher than I wanted (band on mech vs lower bottle cage bolt) but the front changes are still surprisingly slick. I now use both chainrings equally and the entire 12-27 cassette. It's a really practical combination. In 46/12 I can still pedal downhill at 30 mph, which is about as fast as I ever get in the gently undulating terrain round here.

Other bike has a 105 triple, and on that I spend 95% of the time in the middle 39t ring.

stevie63

I am in Thetford so I have similar terrain to you, when I used to have a sora triple I also could spend 90-95% on the middle ring but I hated that it was a bit more difficult to get the front set up and there was always that risk of dropping the chain when shifting onto the little ring which has never happened since I went compact.

wotnoshoeseh

Been thinking about this for a while - 34 tooth ring means you can frequently end up spinning like a dervish just to keep up.
I'm thinking a 36 or 38 tooth ring would make more sense.
What options do I have with Shimano R500 (winter) and Ultegra 6750 (summer) chainsets?

Saw some Stronglight Dural on Ribble that are less than a tenner
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/chainrings-chainrings-road-stronglight-dural-5083-110mm-shim-9-10-chainring/strochri370.
Anyone know if they are any good or a match for either of my two cranksets?

fleshtuxedo

Another option - 48/34 on my winter bike (some cheap FSA Chainset) with a 12-28 cassette. I've never run out of gears even on chain gangs. The jump between chainrings is still noticeably better than 50/34, but the 48 gives plenty of top end for my riding.

I ride a 51/37 on my summer bike, do I win the prize for most unlikely chainrings with that?

bendertherobot

I have a fairly big hill on my commute. Not hard per se but if I'm a bit tired I tend to drop down to the little ring.

Yesterday, did that on my "commuter" bike. 50/34 and 11-32.

Today, rode the CX so 46/36 and 11-32.

On the CX the need to drop to the small ring is much less because of the size of the big ring. So, I left it in there and absolutely flew up.

Right, where can I get a 46t chainring for SRAM Apex chainset?

cookeeemonster

was think this morning that a 36/48 might be a good compromise? or 35/47...when will it end!?!?!? :P