Well that's the nail in the coffin for my town.

rick_chasey

Mr Goo wrote:

As some of you know I live in the New Forest in the not so lovely town of New Milton. Over the last dozen years the high street and the commercial road that runs off it have been in decline. None more so than during the recession. In the last few years the vacant shops have been taken over by charity shops, last count getting on for 10. None of which pay business rates, thereby increasing the pressure on the local council to increase the rates for those that qualify. Then we in last couple of years we have seen two tattoo/piercing parlours and the inevitable 'Vape' shop appear. Not to mention the proliferation of fast food outlets. Woolies now 99p store. Half a dozen 'house clearance' come junk shops that insist on displaying all their tatt on the pavement, from MFI furniture to fridge freezers. And don't get me started on the growing trend of 'A' frame signs that you have to dodge should you want to run the gauntlet of the high street.

But now! Yes! New Milton that growing carbuncle of the New Forest can proudly boast it's first Massage Parlour. Or Thai Therapy Centre as it claims to be. It can only go down from here. Next stop will be another parlour followed by the inevitable sex shop. And there doesn't appear to be anyone in local council that wants to turn it around.

What I am trying to highlight is that my town and many others are re-defining themselves to cater for what I would term. The lowest common denominator. At this rate the high street is dead to most unless you want a tattoo, eyebrow piercing, clog your arteries with a fat dripping kebab meat of questionable origin or to have your todger fettled.

Gotta get out of this place.

High streets reflect the wants and need of the people who live there. You live there. Ergo, stop complaining.


:twisted:

mamba80

Rick Chasey wrote:

High streets reflect the wants and need of the people who live there. You live there. Ergo, stop complaining.


:twisted:

Naïve, councils regardless of local opposition, have no choice but to approve a superstore app and another and another....., and if they didnt the company would appeal to sec of state and win.

bompington

mamba80 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

High streets reflect the wants and need of the people who live there. You live there. Ergo, stop complaining.


:twisted:

Naïve, councils regardless of local opposition, have no choice but to approve a superstore app and another and another....., and if they didnt the company would appeal to sec of state and win.

So are you saying that councils should (illegally under current laws) ban large shops when day after day shoppers demonstrate that they prefer them by voting with their feet - and wallets?

lakesluddite

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Kendal is not too bad for shops but last Xmas eve it was dead. Year before it was full of shoppers right up to the last 10 minutes. At 5:30 and only then did most shops shut locking the doors on people still shopping. This past Xmas eve they were starting to close from 3! Sign of it happening in Kendal perhaps?

Hopefully everyone had their shopping done and was in the pub.
Lovely place Kendal.

I think what Kendal has going for it is that it's a fair distance to an equal sized town, and therefore has quite a large catchment area - it's not one of these urban areas that run into each other. The nearest places are Lancaster or Barrow, and neither of those is a particular drain on the shoppers.
Also - it has been trying to promote itself as a 'Festival Town', and there's something different every couple of months, whether it be Kendal Mountain Festival or the Food Festival that had the place crammed this weekend.

lancew

I managed to get a practically new set of Specialzed MTB Pro shoes from a charity shop for £8 yesterday so I am currently bias in their favor but:

With the removal of the local shops monopoly on providing goods through the internet and the increase in the large shopping centers people are always going to go with what is cheapest unless they get any extra level of service. Currently the UK shopping experience is not offering that so many shops will go under.

Some shops and markets are beginning to understand this and make their shops something more than just a place to purchase items. The rise of the coffeeshop/mechanic/local bike shop is one example. As is Jessops massively improving their photo printing operations and general service levels.

Don't forget though that many areas will simply go through a state of flux until their next calling comes along. Where I got my shoes yesterday (Beckenham, part of Bromley) is now mostly coffee shops, restaurants, charity shops and a cinema. And hopefully as we all become a nation of foodies those restaurants will only get better which will draw more people etc.

All is not lost!+

Pross

Nice to know I've played my part in the destruction of two towns mentioned in this thread (New Milton and Hucknall) by being the highway engineer for Tesco at both towns

That said I didn't see anything in either town to suggest it was thriving before Tesco came and there were certainly some benefits to the work I did in Hucknall not least that it provided a section of bypass / relief road that the Council had been planning on building at no cost to council tax payers and also enabled access to the tram station.

It would be easier to take the initial rant seriously if Mr Goo hadn't assumed that what appears to be a legitimate business would be a seedy knocking shop passing itself off as a genuine massage parlour.

As someone else said, you get the town centre the residents deserve. If people are prepared to pay a premium to shop at independent shops then they will thrive but the vast majority of people need / want to buy things at bargain basement prices. Councils also need to look at their business rates and balance the attractiveness of a high quality town centre against business rate income.

tim_wand

You get the town centres you deserve! Hmm. I think the big boys certainly manipulate the odds in their favour.

Tesco, ,making suppliers pay them or forfeit monies owed , to stock their products.

Asda . paying dairy farmers less for a litre of milk than it costs to produce.

Charity shops not subject to business rates.

Homogenised multi nationals such as Starbucks, claiming to be based in Liechtenstein but trading in the UK and paying no tax.

Amazon drawing down Billions in UK business and paying very little tax.

So just how does Jones the Butcher compete with that.

Hardly a level playing field! and yes maybe we created it, but not without a hell of a lot of manipulation.

I don't want the High Street in My town to look exactly the same as the High Street in your town!

We used to be a Nation of Butchers , Bakers and Candlestick makers. The high street now just looks like a

repository for Zombies.

morstar

tim wand wrote:

You get the town centres you deserve! Hmm. I think the big boys certainly manipulate the odds in their favour.

Tesco, ,making suppliers pay them or forfeit monies owed , to stock their products.

Asda . paying dairy farmers less for a litre of milk than it costs to produce.

Charity shops not subject to business rates.

Homogenised multi nationals such as Starbucks, claiming to be based in Liechtenstein but trading in the UK and paying no tax.

Amazon drawing down Billions in UK business and paying very little tax.

So just how does Jones the Butcher compete with that.

Hardly a level playing field! and yes maybe we created it, but not without a hell of a lot of manipulation.

I don't want the High Street in My town to look exactly the same as the High Street in your town!

We used to be a Nation of Butchers , Bakers and Candlestick makers. The high street now just looks like a

repository for Zombies.

But ultimately we, the consumers are in control. If you value your high street retailers, patronise them and accept there may be a slight premium in exchange for being able to touch, feel and try on the wares. Don't go in bleating about 10% cheaper on pileithighsellitlow.com.
Personally, I do care about the high street (and British manufacturers also) but only when quality and service justify it. I do buy online so it's a complex mix of value judgements we make.
If you just buy the cheapest products available you contribute directly to the centralisation of wealth accumulation. This is a difficult force to resist but it is why all towns offer the same bland experience. It's why the 1% possess as much as the rest put together. Yes, we get the High Street we deserve.

Pross

Exactly, be prepared to pay for your principles and also if you are an independent retailer you need to do something to make customers feel it worthwhile to pay extra whether that's quality, high levels of service or expert knowledge of your product.

Giraffoto

Pross wrote:

. . .be prepared to pay for your principles. . .

^^This! If you want good local shops, use them while they're there.

mr_goo

Pross wrote:

Nice to know I've played my part in the destruction of two towns mentioned in this thread (New Milton and Hucknall) by being the highway engineer for Tesco at both towns

That said I didn't see anything in either town to suggest it was thriving before Tesco came and there were certainly some benefits to the work I did in Hucknall not least that it provided a section of bypass / relief road that the Council had been planning on building at no cost to council tax payers and also enabled access to the tram station.

It would be easier to take the initial rant seriously if Mr Goo hadn't assumed that what appears to be a legitimate business would be a seedy knocking shop passing itself off as a genuine massage parlour.

As someone else said, you get the town centre the residents deserve. If people are prepared to pay a premium to shop at independent shops then they will thrive but the vast majority of people need / want to buy things at bargain basement prices. Councils also need to look at their business rates and balance the attractiveness of a high quality town centre against business rate income.

Pross.
Were you responsible for designing the surface water drainage in the Tesco NM car park? If so you will be pleased to know that where the 'ACO' gratings on the linear channels kept popping up everytime a car went over them, they have now replaced them by filling the channel with tarmac. So now the water doesn't flow into any gullies and the car park floods. Marvellous.

mamba80

bompington wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

High streets reflect the wants and need of the people who live there. You live there. Ergo, stop complaining.


:twisted:

Naïve, councils regardless of local opposition, have no choice but to approve a superstore app and another and another....., and if they didnt the company would appeal to sec of state and win.

So are you saying that councils should (illegally under current laws) ban large shops when day after day shoppers demonstrate that they prefer them by voting with their feet - and wallets?

No and i dont see where you get that idea from? i am saying "level the playing field" pay £x an hour to park in town and risk a £x fine or park at superstore and pay nothing, superstores have their place but there are just too many at present, as can be seen by Tesco and others scaling back their store plans.

Pross

Mr Goo wrote:

Pross wrote:

Nice to know I've played my part in the destruction of two towns mentioned in this thread (New Milton and Hucknall) by being the highway engineer for Tesco at both towns

That said I didn't see anything in either town to suggest it was thriving before Tesco came and there were certainly some benefits to the work I did in Hucknall not least that it provided a section of bypass / relief road that the Council had been planning on building at no cost to council tax payers and also enabled access to the tram station.

It would be easier to take the initial rant seriously if Mr Goo hadn't assumed that what appears to be a legitimate business would be a seedy knocking shop passing itself off as a genuine massage parlour.

As someone else said, you get the town centre the residents deserve. If people are prepared to pay a premium to shop at independent shops then they will thrive but the vast majority of people need / want to buy things at bargain basement prices. Councils also need to look at their business rates and balance the attractiveness of a high quality town centre against business rate income.

Pross.
Were you responsible for designing the surface water drainage in the Tesco NM car park? If so you will be pleased to know that where the 'ACO' gratings on the linear channels kept popping up everytime a car went over them, they have now replaced them by filling the channel with tarmac. So now the water doesn't flow into any gullies and the car park floods. Marvellous.

Nope, our responsibility ended at the highway boundary. It was mainly designing the aletrations to the roundabout on Lymington Road. Not surprise to hear about the drainage though, seems to have everywhere!