Light XC Wheels

mattrixdesign2

Hi

Looking to be enlightened in the world of wheels!

I don't ride MTB that much (most of my miles are road/CX), but recently got back into a bit of XC and Trail Centre and been doing a few local races, with plans for more of the summer.

The bike is a Cube Ltd SL, wheels are 26, XT hubs, Alex rims. To be fair they have stayed good and true so reliable in that sense. Over the last few months I have noticed the rear wheel to be a bit "gravelly" when free spinning... finally got it to the bike shop for a service, £20 lighter and now I have a serviced wheel that feels rough (pitted hubs), it felt better before the service but was slightly loose.

The bike shop tell me that the XT type hubs with loose (?) rather than sealed bearings require more maintenance than the sealed types (although they don't run quite as efficiently?).

So I can't be riding around with a rough hub, and its an excuse to upgrade (just wish they told me before "fixing" it).

I am thinking that due to the fact I am riding off trend 26 wheels I may be able to find a bit of a discounted bargain?

So what I want is something that is light weight (light rider, with only XC racing and the odd trail centre black run in mind), tubeless ready (currently running tube but may as well be repared) and running on hubs suited to wet, muddy, British conditions and "centre" lock for the XT discs, not sure on the advantages/disadvantages of rim widths, but I tend to run 2.1/2.2 inch tyres.

I have had some CX wheels from Superstar components and was happy with the service, weight, price.

So that is one port of call.

Any ideas and what would be a respectable weight for some light weight XC 26 wheels?

Ferrals

how much are you planning on spending?

sub 1500g I'd have thought.

mattrixdesign2

Tight budget £150 (possible?)

cooldad

Rubbish LBS in my opinion. XT hubs are nice and smooth and free running although maybe not the lightest, and maintenance takes a few minutes and a bit of grease.
They also don't seem to know the difference between sealed bearings, which XT are, an cartridge bearings which may require less maintenance, but are effectively disposable, and may be a bugger when they need replacing. Depending on the hubs.

Current sealed/cartridge argument here

viewtopic.php?f=10004&t=13018555

Centrelock hubs are also relatively rare, so if you want to keep the rotors it's either Shimano hubs or adapters (or maybe DT Swiss, Fulcrum?)

The Rookie

Not impossible, but I've never seen pitted hub cups, occasionally I see pitted cones which are easy and cheap to replace.

I suspect your LBS has done a rubbish job as even with pitted cones I managed to get my rear Shimano hub on my commuter spinning sweetly enough that it did another 4000 miles before I pensioned it off.

You won't get truly lightweight wheels at that price, firstly I would learn how to service cup and cone hubs by fixing that rear wheel properly and secondly then decide if you actually need another pair which aren't going to offer much more than you have now anyway!

mattrixdesign2

Hmmm. OK. I was told the wheel would spin well, but its just felt tight and rough to me.

Trusted their opinion.

So what do you recommend I do, I have cone spanners, my fear is its a messy job. What should I be looking for?

The Rookie

Sounds like they've overtightened the cones, easy to do and simple to fix.

Personally I'd strip it down (undo locknut and then cone from one end and slide the axle out, remove all the balls), clean it all (just need kitchen roll) and check for pitting in the hub cups or the cones on the axle and any flat spots on the balls.

Regrease with a good quality grease (I use castrol Red rubber grease), setting the preload is a bit tricky as just doing the locknut up moves the cone (what I suspect the LBS numpty did) so you have to juggle doing up the locknut and UNDOING the cone to get them adjusted right so they spin freely with no play. Takes about 45mins if you have cone spanners, decent 17mm spanner, kitchen roll, a tub (to keep the balls safe in) and the grease.

cooldad

Open them up, clean them out, stick new grease in. Put them back together.

Important thing with cup and cone is to get them adjusted perfectly - too tight and they feel notchy (perhaps your LBS isn't very good at it), so just pinch them up just fractionally on the loose side.

mattrixdesign2

Had a fiddle with them, there is a compromise between getting them a bit smoother and less notchy and being too loose/too tight. The noise is less than when they were taken in, I guess I was expecting them to be 100% like new, maybe I left them too long.

What is the maintenance process for these? I really don't ride mtb much, is yearly ok? Do you just repack with grease or automatically swap out the bearings?

rockmonkeysc

XT hubs are excellent when serviced. Sounds like yours are overtightened.
You wont do better for £150

The Rookie

Have a read above where I detailed the job, no such thing as too much grease when you do it (OK within sensible bounds).

njee20

Not impossible, but I've never seen pitted hub cups, occasionally I see pitted cones which are easy and cheap to replace.

Pretty common, we used to do hub internal transplants though - you can drift cups out of a hub shell and press them into the old one.

The Rookie

Fair enough.

Have two decent cups in my old M475 rear hub then!

veronese68

Just to add to the above comments on adjustment what feels perfect off the bike can be too tight on the bike. Check how it feels when fitted as well.

cycleclinic

Cooldad is right about xt hubs. Good hubs. While you can drift out the cups from a spare hub to restore a worn one you have to have a hub to scarifice. Cups on the lower end shimano hubs do pit but it takes alot longer on xt or xtr hubs and if you service properly it almost never happens. If you want a 1500g wheels set it is doable. I would start with something like the velocity blunt sl rim which is 410g. You will need double butted spokes though with a disc brake rim That add another 410g or so with nipples. So that 1230g leaving 270g for hubs which is not real. So the only way would be use a rim like the dt swiss xr350 which is 350g. But you will then need light hubs at 370g which dt swiss 240 or go over target weight with dt swiss 350s or xtr hubs. So it doaBle and of course stans do some light rims too. I have had the dt swiss xr350 rims and the first ride i twatted the rear on a drop off and bent it properly out of shape. Not a rim i like much as a consequence. Also it no very stiff which is is other problem.

The Rookie

I managed my 1430g wheels for £180, but that was stans rims at half price (Alpines, but crests would only add 40g total) and the front hub for £4 off ebay (again a very lucky buy), in reality it's not possible for that price even at normal 'online (nor RRP) prices.

cycleclinic

It is possible rookie. One way is with lower cost hubs of ebay, there are a number that are under 350g for a pair but i had a pair like these branded as a2z paired with my dt swiss rr350 rims. Wheelset weight was 1350g but it took about 5 rides in the summer for me to ruin the bearings and then i found the new bearings would not press in properly ( bearing seats not square). I.e crap hubs. So light weight is doable for not alot but i would not do it again that way. My light weight 29er wheels now use carbon rims which means i can use thinner spokes, a lower spoke count to keep the weight down And have a wheelset that is actually reliable.

The Rookie

thecycleclinic wrote:

It is possible rookie. One way is with lower cost hubs of ebay, there are a number that are under 350g for a pair but i had a pair like these branded as a2z paired with my dt swiss rr350 rims. Wheelset weight was 1350g

Spokes and nipples for 2 wheels for less than 300g? Only possible with revolutions and you won't get those with the rims and even using cheap hubs at the price mentioned!

cycleclinic

320g actually for 64 revs spokes or lasers and alloy nipples in around 260mm length. It was the hubs that let those wheels down. it was an experiment one of many i do to test what works and what doesn't. This experiment was not that sucessful.

The Rookie

Lasers will be heavier.....

njee20

The Rookie wrote:

Lasers will be heavier.....

Lasers and Revs are a very similar weight, they're both 2.0/1.5/2.0mm.

Sapim Superspokes are lighter, but vastly more expensive. Or Pillar Ti, which are crazy light, and equally expensive.