Aero wheels

ianlawton

Hey all,

I currently use Campag Zonda's for both training and racing which have been a fantastic upgrade from the standard wheels I got with the bike, however I have noticed 80%+ of bikes in races are using aero wheels.

I am sure this is a regular subject on cycle forums but hoping for some insight on carbon aero wheels. I intend to use them for racing only, mainly crits, 50m hilly road races and the odd TT so I'm guessing I need a bit of an all rounder.

Budget is around £1.2k

Fast Forward F4R Carbon 240s Tubulars seem very light and aero, how do they compare with other aero wheels - would I notice much of a difference between a pair that weighed 300g more on the flat or in crits?

This may seem like a silly question but does the extra speed from deep section rim wheels come from the shape or the extra weight or a combination? Will the light FF 4R counter the aero on the flat due to the weight?

Thanks!

ugo.santalucia

ianlawton wrote:

Hey all,

I currently use Campag Zonda's for both training and racing which have been a fantastic upgrade from the standard wheels I got with the bike, however I have noticed 80%+ of bikes in races are using aero wheels.

That is irrelevant... do you feel you would get more points if you had aero wheels? Or in other words... do you often miss the breakaway or can't keep up with the guys breaking away or always lose the sprint by a handful of millimeters? If so, you might need aero wheels, or not...

If not, you definitely don't need aero wheels

ianlawton

I am a novice to racing and have only done 1 crit so far. I was reasonably comfortable in the pack but finished 12th due to bad positioning at the end but did contest the sprint but didn't manage to improve my placing.

Would i feel even more comfortable in the pack ready for a break away or for the sprint finish if I had aero wheels?

ugo.santalucia

ianlawton wrote:

Would i feel even more comfortable in the pack ready for a break away or for the sprint finish if I had aero wheels?

The truth? You will probably be worried about crashing and damaging the expensive wheels and that won't do you any favour in the sprint...

napoleond

I use a 32h rear and 28h box sections for circuit racing. Never have I felt that they were the reason for losing out on placings. I have raced on Zipp 404/808 combo. As Ugo says, I was worried about crashing and didn't feel any benefit as I punctured halfway through and ended up switching to my spares.

LegendLust

ianlawton wrote:

Hey all,

I currently use Campag Zonda's for both training and racing which have been a fantastic upgrade from the standard wheels I got with the bike, however I have noticed 80%+ of bikes in races are using aero wheels.

I am sure this is a regular subject on cycle forums but hoping for some insight on carbon aero wheels. I intend to use them for racing only, mainly crits, 50m hilly road races and the odd TT so I'm guessing I need a bit of an all rounder.

Budget is around £1.2k

Fast Forward F4R Carbon 240s Tubulars seem very light and aero, how do they compare with other aero wheels - would I notice much of a difference between a pair that weighed 300g more on the flat or in crits?

This may seem like a silly question but does the extra speed from deep section rim wheels come from the shape or the extra weight or a combination? Will the light FF 4R counter the aero on the flat due to the weight?

Thanks!

It's mostly the shape and area of the rim.

Depth of rim is crucial. If you were only doing crits and RRs I'd recommend 38mm depth, this is the ideal depth for aero gains and front wheel not being affected by cross winds. However as you're doing TTs as well perhaps 50mm would be better. Bear in mind if you're a light guy you could have problems with sudden side gusts with 50mm.

Tubs are the best choice for racing. No question. Fit Veloflex tubs and you'll be flying.

Take a look at Miche wheels as well. Their Supertype and SWR carbons are superb. Great quality hubs.

imposter2.0

ianlawton wrote:

I am a novice to racing and have only done 1 crit so far. I was reasonably comfortable in the pack but finished 12th due to bad positioning at the end but did contest the sprint but didn't manage to improve my placing.

Would i feel even more comfortable in the pack ready for a break away or for the sprint finish if I had aero wheels?

No. You wouldn't. You didn't come 12th due to a lack of aero wheels. And how comfortable you feel in the bunch relates to your fitness levels, not your kit choices.

Anonymous

They are a 'nice to have and look at' bit of kit, but aero wheels won't win you a cat 4 race.

That said, they do change how riding your bike feels (and that is coming from someone who has a £500 quid pair of rebranded carbon ones, not expensive ones). Are you able to hire a pair for a day to do your usual training route, to see how they feel?

ianlawton

Thanks all!

Yes a friend is going to lend me his Shimano C50's for a week to see how I feel on them, once the wind has died down! I may take them down to the local Crit course and have a play around on them.

I just find it odd that so many people say there's hardly any benefit from using aero wheel's on crits yet almost every rider last week was using them.

ai_1

ianlawton wrote:

Thanks all!

Yes a friend is going to lend me his Shimano C50's for a week to see how I feel on them, once the wind has died down! I may take them down to the local Crit course and have a play around on them.

I just find it odd that so many people say there's hardly any benefit from using aero wheel's on crits yet almost every rider last week was using them.

Like many things in cycling it may be as much a result of fashion and/or perception as it is the result of real performance gains. There is a gain to be made by improving bike & rider aerodynamics but gains to be had by aerodynamic changes to the frame or wheels while remaining UCI compliant are going to be relatively minor. This is especially true for events where you spend time in a bunch. Spending the money on a more aero helmet is likely to be a better investment.

DKay

ianlawton wrote:

I just find it odd that so many people say there's hardly any benefit from using aero wheel's on crits yet almost every rider last week was using them.

It's because they look good and more 'pro'. Except pros do need the marginal aero gains they give, whereas 90% of most other riders don't.

Monty Dog

If you're sitting in the middle of a bunch, then there's no real benefit. Surviving a breakaway is more about your ability to 'read' a race and your fitness to get away without killing yourself. On the downside, I broke carbon tubular rims in 2 successive races due to potholes.

iPete

ianlawton wrote:

I just find it odd that so many people say there's hardly any benefit from using aero wheel's on crits yet almost every rider last week was using them.

It's a bit daft, I was racing in a Cat 4 recently where you could hear all of the carbon pads every time the bunch slowed, on nearly every bike. I guess people want to buy every advantage possible but in reality it won't make any difference to the results.

ianlawton

Thanks for all the comments, I think I'll be sticking with my Zonda's on crits.

What about road races, where the pack could get more fragmented do you feel I will get much benefit from aero wheels? The FF F4R's are very light at 1250gms which could help on hills!

iPete

Not worth £1.2k, not on my budget anyway. I also race on the premise "race what you can afford to crash" and £1.2k wheels for me would be Sunday best or TT.

You'd likely get better gains for your money with a new helmet or skin suit.
But then again, racing in cat 4 I wouldn't personally spend money on any of those things.

I did however spend money on heavier wheels with a powermeter and turbo trainer which in my opinion, made a difference.

imposter2.0

I used to race on a set of PX 50 tubs which I picked up off ebay. I didn't use them because they were aero - although they probably were - I used them because they were light and therefore lightened the overall weight of the bike, which felt nice in races. Having said that, I would still have done better with cheaper wheels and better legs.

cycleclinic

They make a small difference but not worth over £1000 either. I use a set but I can build them for not a huge ammount so it makes sense for me. Your level of fittness plus your ability to position your self well determines where you finish in a race. It's not about how aero all your kit is. Work on getting in the right place for a good finish and that sprint power. Those two will see you to some points. I know I need to work on those two myself, I'll find out how much work on sunday.

ajkerr73

iPete wrote:

ianlawton wrote:

I guess people want to buy every advantage possible but in reality it won't make any difference to the results.

I'm no bike racer, but in sport in General, the ability to win is directly affected by your own perception of your ability to win.

If you are one man in a bunch without aero wheels, you either need to be mentally strong and sure of the science that says you have no disadvantage, or you are immediately on the back foot.

FransJacques

Ajkerr73 wrote:

iPete wrote:

ianlawton wrote:

I guess people want to buy every advantage possible but in reality it won't make any difference to the results.

I'm no bike racer, but in sport in General, the ability to win is directly affected by your own perception of your ability to win.

If you are one man in a bunch without aero wheels, you either need to be mentally strong and sure of the science that says you have no disadvantage, or you are immediately on the back foot.

I know what you mean, but I think that only newbies really feel this. The hardened races amongst us (at it since 1986 when I was 13-14) are not as easily phased.

To the OP, I actually enjoy racing my 303/404 combo and for a road race on open roads where there is much more chance of facing the wind - trying to get across a split or making my way up the bunch, or attacking - I wouldn't line up without them. If you're heavy, make sure the rear wheel is laced at least 2x on both sides and avoid pre-2014 Zipp rear wheels with radial spoking. You can feel them rub. They're for TTs or Tris, not fast corners.

crikey

If you are one man in a bunch without aero wheels, you either need to be mentally strong and sure of the science that says you have no disadvantage, or you are immediately on the back foot.

Alternatively, you've already lost if you think your wheels will help you win.

iron-clover

I've personally done all my races on OpenPro rims with quality hubs and light tyres and tubes. I've only got 32 spoke wheels which you could go lower on, but really they don't make much difference- it's the weight at the rim you have to look after.

I find the ability to accelerate fast is much, much more important than aero gains (which are fairly marginal anyway when it comes to wheels tbh) when it comes to wheels in bunch races. The good braking that comes with alloy rims is a good bonus as well- in the 4th cat races you'll find people braking at random times, and it can mean you really have to slam the anchors on hard at times. Then you have to accelerate right after...

Unless you plan to do lots of riding off the front then I'd probably go for a pair of stiff, light shallow alloy wheels rather than deep sections. When you get out onto real road races you'll find they like putting the finish up a hill (that you also have to climb over up to 8 times...) where again light wheels are king. If you can get really good braking with carbon rims, such as with swisstop pads, then you can go very light with 38mm carbon tubular wheels which do have some 'aero' benefit- but I'm still sticking with my alloy hoops for races for now and keeping my tubs for TTs and hill climbs (which they are awesome for) until I'm totally happy with the braking- which at the moment I'm not.

Good luck!