tubs, worth it?

skeff10

Getting a new wheelset. I know the issue of punctures and tubs, but in the real world am I less likely to get a puncture? And is the ride quality worth it?
opinions valued As I,vve got the chance of a good tubular wheelset for a good price. Not for racing, but weekends and sportives.
cheers

964cup

I only ride tubs, except for commuting when I use road tubeless. The wheels are lighter, the ride quality is better, you don't have to worry about your tyres blowing up on Alpine descents - what's not to like? Once you a) accept that tape is fine ('cos glue is a faff), b) practice taking off and replacing tubs at the roadside (not hard) and c) find a suitable way of carrying a spare (harder - I use Arundel Tubi saddlepacks and it's a pain getting the tub into it, neat though it looks once done) ... you'll never go back. As a tip, tubeless sealant is your friend; 20ml in a punctured tub not only seals the puncture (unless it's huge) but sticks around for ages sealing future punctures. I use Effetto Mariposa Caffe Lattex and have had only good experiences so far.

nibby

Similar to the OP and the only thing that is putting me off at the moment is

a. carrying a spare tub around as I just normally put a spare inner tube in my back pocket in a small case like a caddy sack at the moment as I hate having bags strapped to the bike

b. If I didn't carry a spare tub and run sealant is it still possible to fix a puncture at the roadside to get me home?

Cheers

paul2718

I stick a spare tyre in a jersey pocket when necessary. YMMV.

I think there's no real chance of fixing a punctured tub roadside, especially if the failure has defeated sealant.

IMO if you want lightweight wheels then tubulars are the only sensible solution, clinchers require extra strength in the wheel that is only to keep the air in. There is no more material in a tubular than in a clincher/tube combo, so that extra strength in the wheel is redundant weight. You can ameliorate this a bit with a tubeless arrangement. But this still leaves the somewhat mythical emergency issues with punctures and brake heat on mountain descents.

Paul

Monty Dog

Yes, you will get punctures - how often depends on what tubs you fit and the roads you ride on.

jgsi

Monty Dog wrote:

Yes, you will get punctures - how often depends on what tubs you fit and the roads you ride on.

uk sportive crap back lane routes... I'd stick with clinchers.

bernithebiker

Tubs puncture less in my experience.

I just carry a can of sealant - I haven't had to use it in 15 000km.

I've had 3 tub punctures in 4 years and 50 000km - and they've always been because I've left the tub on too long and it's become thin.

If you want light wheels and a great feel, then tubs are the way to go.

team47b

964Cup wrote:

I use Arundel Tubi saddlepacks and it's a pain getting the tub into it, neat though it looks once done) ...

I use one of these and find getting a tyre (21mm) in and out of this bag harder work than fitting a tub! Why can't they make them a couple of centimetres bigger all round :roll:

sungod

if the wheels are nice and you're prepared to learn how to fit and repair* tubs, go for it

as mentioned, sealant will fix small punctures, tufo extreme is good

choose good tubs, little point getting ones made of hosepipe that ride like an average clincher

glue on with vittoria mastik one

usually sealant is enough, but a bad cut needs replacement, i carry a tufo as a spare (preglued, in a ziplock bag to keep it dry), it has all the ride quality of garden hosepipe, but it's light and folds up small, together with pump, minitool, sealant, gloves, etc. it all fits ok in middle jersey pocket...

tub, credit card sized thing, inner tube



* yes, you can pay to have someone repair (or even fit), but it pushes up cost and takes longer, and brings into question whether you'd be ready to swap a tub on the road if needed, i just wait until i've 2-3 needing repair and feel in the mood for a bit of arts and crafts

skeff10

cheers, i'm being persuaded to go for it. What about using the tape? easy? any good

napoleond

Tape is a piece of p1ss.

cougie

I bought tubs to race triathlons on. I had a spate of bad luck - two flats in one ride - £120 worth of tyres gone.

Another tub with Tufo sealant managed to get gashed and that had to go.

By comparison - my GP4000s tyres have been great.

YMMV.

iron-clover

Tape is easier to get off than glue when cleaning the rim, but I'm sticking with glue for now (I'm using conti carbon glue which apparently resists high temperatures).

I think it'll be harder to align the tyres properly using tape, but after a bit of practice if it turns out you're good at it then taping is much, much faster- it took me 2 and a bit days of cleaning and then gluing to get my tub on (waiting for layers to dry), whereas with tape it *could* have been done in a couple of hours with tape.

EDIT: Just watched an video on how to install using Tufo tape with plastic (rather than papery) backing strip and it looked ridiculously easy to do.

norvernrob

I use tubs on my best bike. No punctures yet, I do carry a can of vittoria sealant and a lightweight pre-glued spare tyre on longer rides - a tufo 160 which folds up not much bigger than a tube and easily fits in a jersey pocket. It's wrapped in cling film to protect it and stop the glue drying out totally. It's only to get me home as a last resort.

1100g for a wheelset is hard to resist if you're a bit of a weight weenie, I knocked nearly 3/4 of a Kg from my wheels/tyres/tubes by switching to tubs instead of 46mm carbon clinchers.

skeff10

Ok, what about the ride quality? Will I notice the difference?

bernithebiker

skeff10 wrote:

Ok, what about the ride quality? Will I notice the difference?

Yes.

crikey

How do you know someone is using tubs?

Because they'll tell you within 5 minutes of meeting you...

For weekend riding and sportives, high quality clincher tyres will be more than sufficient, given that the majority of racing all across the world is done on clinchers. Clinchers have less rolling resistance than tubs, especially tubs that are taped on.

They are more hassle for very little in the way of discernible return, and certainly offer next to no performance advantage for anyone who isn't getting paid to ride.

LegendLust

Simple answer.

Tubs for racing.

Good quality Open Tubular/clincher from Veloflex or Vittoria for Sportives and summer riding.

LegendLust

crikey wrote:

How do you know someone is using tubs?

Because they'll tell you within 5 minutes of meeting you...

For weekend riding and sportives, high quality clincher tyres will be more than sufficient, given that the majority of racing all across the world is done on clinchers. Clinchers have less rolling resistance than tubs, especially tubs that are taped on.

They are more hassle for very little in the way of discernible return, and certainly offer next to no performance advantage for anyone who isn't getting paid to ride.

Really? Care to show evidence of this?

thegreatdivide

Get over the fear of tubs, ride them and enjoy them.

FWIW I run Veloflex Corsa clinchers with latex inners on one bike and Veloflex Carbon tubs on another and I prefer the ride on the tubs. There's a certain je ne sais quoi about the latter. They just feel so bloody good.

scott_w1987

On my better bike I run tubs, not really out of choice - two bargain sets of wheels that I couldn't say no to just happened to be tubulars(hand built ambrosio nemesis and some reynolds assualts)

I don't race or even do sportives. Although I'll possibly attempt a few races this year if I'm feeling up for it. So other than fast club runs I definitely don't need the performance element from them. But I don't see why they should only be for racing. Given that they aren't hard to glue - but it does require more time than swapping tyres on a clincher setup, obviously. Even easier if you tape! Plus you get lighter wheels, tyres that feel better at higher pressures and I find them far more resistant to punctures than clinchers with decent tubes and they aren't really any more expensive than some decent clincher tyres and good tubes.

I ride with a pre glued tufo 160 and a can of vittoria pitstop.

Grill

crikey wrote:

How do you know someone is using tubs?

Because they'll tell you within 5 minutes of meeting you...

For weekend riding and sportives, high quality clincher tyres will be more than sufficient, given that the majority of racing all across the world is done on clinchers. Clinchers have less rolling resistance than tubs, especially tubs that are taped on.

They are more hassle for very little in the way of discernible return, and certainly offer next to no performance advantage for anyone who isn't getting paid to ride.

Oh you!

jgsi

Tubs for a quality ride ...?
well you are all experts then, 'cos I cant tell the difference.
You are probably riding with very leaky latex inners and end up with just 50psi after a few hours.
I shall be honest... the only reason I got my tubular wheels was the fact that my F6Rs were more than half price, and yes they are genuine and were also new at pos and have 11speed freehub.
Do they make me faster than my ex winter Xero wheels....? no

Grill

The tubs themselves (as well as pressure) make a huge difference in ride quality. Cheap tubs ride like ass, but a nice pair are a revelation. I used to ride 22mm Ultremo HT's on my RZR Teams (stiffest wheels ever tested) at 150psi and I found them very comfortable and this was on a Scott Foil. Now I ride slightly more civilised pressures, but there isn't a clincher on the market that would have come close.

Skinner2k3

I am sure I can tell the difference in ride quality too. Nicest riding clinchers I have is probably my Ultremo ZX 23 with latex tubs but I was out last night on a set of Vittoria Rally 23 tubs (yes the dirt cheap ones) and they felt great, even on some pretty rough surfaces they were spot on. My best bike has Vittoria Pave 24 tubs and they are even better again. Both sets have 30ml of Effetto in and I carry a pre-glued tub. Tire pressure is key also.

markwb79

bernithebiker wrote:

Tubs puncture less in my experience.

I just carry a can of sealant - I haven't had to use it in 15 000km.

I've had 3 tub punctures in 4 years and 50 000km - and they've always been because I've left the tub on too long and it's become thin.

If you want light wheels and a great feel, then tubs are the way to go.

Can you please elaborate a little.

What tyres you use?
Assume you still change them regularly?

bernithebiker

Markwb79 wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

Tubs puncture less in my experience.

I just carry a can of sealant - I haven't had to use it in 15 000km.

I've had 3 tub punctures in 4 years and 50 000km - and they've always been because I've left the tub on too long and it's become thin.

If you want light wheels and a great feel, then tubs are the way to go.

Can you please elaborate a little.

What tyres you use?
Assume you still change them regularly?

I tend to use whatever is good, but is discounted at the time. No way I'm paying £80 per tyre.

For a while I was using Vittoria Corsa EVO, good overall, but poor grip in the wet.

Then for 2 years or so, Mavic Yksion Grip and Powerlink, good tyres.

Now I'm on Veloflex Carbon's, excellent, if you can get a good deal.

I would say the rears last about 1/2 a year, 6 to 7000km and the front's a full year.

Grill

Love Veloflex Carbons, but they have rubbish puncture protection. Would never ride them daily out here.

DeVlaeminck

My experience of tubs is they are no more or less likely to puncture than an equivalent clincher - sealant makes them an option for general use without that I wouldn't even consider them (ymmv). I started back cycling on tubs simply because I boughht an old Mercian and just thought that was what racing bikes used.

I tried fixing tubs myself - if you can do it in less than several hours congratulations you are better at it than I was - no doubt it is a skill that comes with practice but it will take practice. That means non sealable holes mean an expensive repair (will they repair tubs with sealant in?) or a new tub.

I'm not saying tubs are a bad idea but I think you need to be the type of person who enjoys tinkering with bikes - if for you fixing your bike is a necessity rather than a pleasure stick with clinchers - unless you don't mind paying a bit more to buy tyres, have them fixed and maybe even have someone glue them for you (though tape is simple).

As for ride quality - so much depends on the wheel, pressure etc I couldn't swear for or against tubs being better.

markwb79

DeVlaeminck wrote:

My experience of tubs is they are no more or less likely to puncture than an equivalent clincher - sealant makes them an option for general use without that I wouldn't even consider them (ymmv). I started back cycling on tubs simply because I boughht an old Mercian and just thought that was what racing bikes used.

I tried fixing tubs myself - if you can do it in less than several hours congratulations you are better at it than I was - no doubt it is a skill that comes with practice but it will take practice. That means non sealable holes mean an expensive repair (will they repair tubs with sealant in?) or a new tub.

I'm not saying tubs are a bad idea but I think you need to be the type of person who enjoys tinkering with bikes - if for you fixing your bike is a necessity rather than a pleasure stick with clinchers - unless you don't mind paying a bit more to buy tyres, have them fixed and maybe even have someone glue them for you (though tape is simple).

As for ride quality - so much depends on the wheel, pressure etc I couldn't swear for or against tubs being better.

I think this is sort of key in a way.

I fix nearly everything myself and I think nothing of glueing my tyres on. Takes a couple of evenings for the whole process. 30minutes each evening and I can do a set.

As for other reasons why....

I use Conti GS Sprinters, not the lightest tyre. But when combined with a light rim they are still great. Its really my commuting and training tyre.
I also run these on a set of nemesis, so not light at all. But feel good I think.

Now I have just received some Vittoria's, different high end versions. These will be mostly for racing. They make an amazingly light wheelset and feels great to ride (in my opinion)

I am comfortable changing and using them. Havent used clinchers for a couple of years and see no real need to go back to them.

thegreatdivide

Markwb79 wrote:

I think this is sort of key in a way.

I fix nearly everything myself and I think nothing of glueing my tyres on. Takes a couple of evenings for the whole process. 30minutes each evening and I can do a set.

I'll third this. If you like to tinker it's no hassle at all. Cycling on the TV, a cup of tea and gluing tubs - nice.

NB - I've only had to glue tubs when I've worn them out.