Falling off technique.

ben@31
ben@31 Posts: 2,327
edited April 2015 in MTB beginners
Having spent 3 hours in A&E having my wrist x-rayed. I was thinking... when we inevitably come off our mountain bikes is there any way to avoid or minimise the risk of injury? For example doing some kind of judo roll rather than naturally sticking your arm out, like I did and risking a scaphoid wrist or collar bone fracture.

I'm quite new to mountain biking and at the moment sticking to blue and red forrest trails. So is all the body armour and full face helmet overkill for me, especially when I'll be pedalling uphill with it. Or is this stuff just for serious downhill ?

When I told the A&E reception I came off my MTB, she rolled her eyes and said "you'll be surprised how many of you mountain bikers come through here from Glentress" :shock:
"The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby

Comments

  • tuck and roll.

    putting arms out = broken collarbone / arm / wrist / hand etc etc
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    This ^^^^^^^^^

    No body armour will protect you from those sorts of things.

    And ask the receptionist whether they get more MTbers or drunken idiots.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    Dont tense up. Exercisizes to build shoulder muscle and core strength can help keep things where they should be.
  • scoi
    scoi Posts: 103
    As you say in the opening post, Judo roll if you can but overcoming natural instinct to put your hands down is tough. Also judo break falls need some practice, so trying out your first when 6 foot in the air may not be good. Priority is protect the head, after that just stay loose, tuck your chin to chest and ball up if you can.
  • pesky_jones
    pesky_jones Posts: 2,890
    Don't really know why everyone is saying definitively don't stick an arm out :?

    You stick arms out naturally for a reason - to prevent serious injury to neck/head etc. The collar bone is a sacrificial bone to protect the neck and back. Use it

    If you can not stick your arms out without risking injury to a more serious body part then go for it.
  • fudgey
    fudgey Posts: 854
    I fell off my brand new full sus on sat.. Didnt have time to do anything and went down like a sack of shite!
    Landed on my fist to ribs, properly winded me and made a nasty crunching noise. I now have very sore ribs and shoulder...
    Scratched the bike too!
    A few years ago i fell off on the road and broke my ankle. I managed to get my hands down for that one but still used my face as a brake...

    Re body armour, on sat a mate i was riding with had knee and elbow pads - i asked if he was expecting to fall off...!

    He did too but not as hard as me!
    My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
  • pesky_jones
    pesky_jones Posts: 2,890
    cyd190468 wrote:
    Don't really know why everyone is saying definitively don't stick an arm out :?

    You stick arms out naturally for a reason - to prevent serious injury to neck/head etc. The collar bone is a sacrificial bone to protect the neck and back. Use it

    If you can not stick your arms out without risking injury to a more serious body part then go for it.
    The problem is that sticking your arm out to save yourself is an instinct developed to prevent injury when you fall over on foot. It doesn't work so well when a bicycle flings you 6 feet in the air or if you're doing 30 or 40 kmph. Natural instincts don't cope well with modern technology.

    Well that makes even less sense and counters your point whilst strengthening mine. Think about it. If you fall over on foot, you stick arms out to slow yourself and prevent your neck/back/head taking the brunt of the impact. But you're saying that when the force of the fall is much higher (from a bike crash etc.) that you should not use your arms :| Feel free too. Your're ideas of self preservation could do with being eradicated :wink::D
  • The Rookie
    The Rookie Posts: 27,812
    Fall over on foot and you are unlikely to break a wrist or collarbone by landing on a hand, fall over off a bike and its much more likely....that is why his post makes sense.

    I'm with the learn to fall without putting your hand out brigade.
    Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.
  • pesky_jones
    pesky_jones Posts: 2,890
    It only makes sense if the aim is to keep your arm in tact, regardless of whether you risk a much more serious or life threatening injuriy. You guys must really like your arms!
  • pesky_jones
    pesky_jones Posts: 2,890
    Actually, just YouTube world cup downhill crashes and see if any of those guys (professional mountain bikers) like to crash without sticking their arms out.
  • step83
    step83 Posts: 4,170
    They may bail and flail but common sense dictates arms in. if you use your arms to brace a fall that impact is going straight up your arm which wasn't designed to take that kind of impact broken wrists etc are to be expected. your arm is not a shock absorber.

    Example you smack something which sends you forward and left at about 45 degrees.

    Arm out likely broken wrist and collar bone and more than likely end up face down in the trail

    Arms in and up similar to a boxing style block. Bruising to arm and ribs impact should case you to roll onto your back. Yes you may break something but your far less likely too imo.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    If you have time to think about where your arms etc are then youre crashing too slow.
  • Fall off enough times though, and your body doeant try to put arms out lol
  • Rad2474
    Rad2474 Posts: 162
    If you have time to think about where your arms etc are then youre crashing too slow.
    Totally agree,I'm on the ground before i can even attempt do put any technique into operation.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    I once crashed on the last jump in a DH race and heard the commentator say how badly wrong it had gone before I hit the ground hard!
  • ben@31
    ben@31 Posts: 2,327
    Fudgey wrote:
    I fell off my brand new full sus on sat.. Didnt have time to do anything and went down like a sack of shite!
    Landed on my fist to ribs, properly winded me and made a nasty crunching noise. I now have very sore ribs and shoulder...
    Scratched the bike too!

    Fudgey, I hope the bike is ok :D

    The worst off I've had where I was winded is coming off one of those wooden boardwalk / north shore things. When you're on top of the bike on top of the wood, it's surprising how far you fall to the ground. I think I landed on top of a tree stump.

    Evil...
    laggan-wolftrax-2.jpg

    Since then I've never felt confident with broad walk / north shore. Just looking at a photo of them on the internet makes me break out into a cold sweat.

    I've cycled past some very steeply banked wood at Glentress (photo below) the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw it... " A&E ! I wonder how many have ended up in hospital"?
    GT%2520Nov%25202008%2520wall%2520ride%2520007%5B1%5D.jpg
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
  • ben@31
    ben@31 Posts: 2,327
    Is there any armour you people recommend for trails? That's not too heavy, restrictive and warm for pedalling uphill.
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
  • felix.london
    felix.london Posts: 4,067
    661 Sub Gear or Nukeproof Critical Armour Base (currently £35 on CRC) are good for pedalling in. Light, comfy, work as a baselayer too. They're only gonna protect you from scrapes, grazes, minor cuts and light bruising though
    "Why have that extra tooth if you're not using it?" - Brian Lopes

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  • Herdwick
    Herdwick Posts: 523
    Don't really know why everyone is saying definitively don't stick an arm out :?

    You stick arms out naturally for a reason - to prevent serious injury to neck/head etc. The collar bone is a sacrificial bone to protect the neck and back. Use it

    If you can not stick your arms out without risking injury to a more serious body part then go for it.
    cyd190468 wrote:
    Don't really know why everyone is saying definitively don't stick an arm out :?

    You stick arms out naturally for a reason - to prevent serious injury to neck/head etc. The collar bone is a sacrificial bone to protect the neck and back. Use it

    If you can not stick your arms out without risking injury to a more serious body part then go for it.
    The problem is that sticking your arm out to save yourself is an instinct developed to prevent injury when you fall over on foot. It doesn't work so well when a bicycle flings you 6 feet in the air or if you're doing 30 or 40 kmph. Natural instincts don't cope well with modern technology.

    Well that makes even less sense and counters your point whilst strengthening mine. Think about it. If you fall over on foot, you stick arms out to slow yourself and prevent your neck/back/head taking the brunt of the impact. But you're saying that when the force of the fall is much higher (from a bike crash etc.) that you should not use your arms :| Feel free too. Your're ideas of self preservation could do with being eradicated :wink::D
    It only makes sense if the aim is to keep your arm in tact, regardless of whether you risk a much more serious or life threatening injuriy. You guys must really like your arms!

    You either never fell off a bike or never riden one

    your pick...
    “I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut
  • pesky_jones
    pesky_jones Posts: 2,890
    Herdwick wrote:
    You either never fell off a bike or never riden one

    your pick...

    So say you go OTB, at speed (I think this is the important bit here) - you'd rather take the impact with your face then stick your arms out :lol: (which instinct would have you do anyway, assuming you don't possess an supernatural ability to slow down time and change physics)

    I'd say if you have time to tuck and roll/ summersault move your body in the air before you hit the ground, then you are all having different crashes to ones I have.
  • Herdwick
    Herdwick Posts: 523
    Honestly the last time I went OTB at speed definently didn't use my face or hands on landing, although I don't remember how I manage, the dirt was at my back, right shoulder, and butt crack, so I guess there is a way to avoid breaking a collar bone and saving your face at the same time :D
    I liked that method and give it a go again if need be....
    “I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut
  • Herdwick
    Herdwick Posts: 523
    Oh, and what do you mean by speed? I am moderate to slow kind of rider....
    “I am a humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishments after I am dead.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut
  • Angus Young
    Angus Young Posts: 3,063
    If you have time to think about where your arms etc are then youre crashing too slow.

    ^ Most definitely this.

    You're being pertinged off the bike at speed and you've got time to throw in your best judo roll, not to mention overcoming all those forces that are having their way with you? You guys must be Jackie Chan. And, as for 'judo rolls', yeah, fine in the dojo on mats. Try that on a rocky trail with the occasional tree stump and you're setting yourself up for a broken back. At best the only thing you can do is try not to but too stiff. And even that is a stretch for most in the heat of the moment. The only realistic thing you can do is hope you get lucky.
    All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
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