Tactics advice for a Cat 4 newbie

topcattim

Hi all, I'm new to racing, and have completed just two Cat 4 circuit races. I felt ok throughout with the pace, and was able to compete in the sprint at the end, which was encouraging. In both races, I finished the sprint in exactly the same position in the field as I started, which makes me think that the secret to finishing higher up might be to be higher placed when the sprint starts. Easier said than done!

Can anyone advise on general racing tips - I've looked around and not found anything that helpful. In particular, if I'm in the pack, lying perhaps 5th-ish and a faster line comes up the outside, if the line that I'm in doesn't respond, then that has the effect of bumping me down a potential 6 or so places, unless I try to swing out into a space that isn't really there because of the continuous line coming through (I hope that makes sense!). I don't want to just wait for the end of the line as it runs the risk of pushing me down the field, but neither do I want to knock anyone, or me, off! How should I respond if this happens? I feel as if I have the strength to both get to the sprint, and compete ok in the sprint, but I just haven't quite worked out how to make sure that I'm in the right place when the sprint starts!

BeaconRuth

I think you might be looking for text-book answers where none exist. If you're sheltering behind other wheels in a line approaching the finish and another line comes past then you're in the wrong line! Maybe you chose the wrong wheels to follow in the first place, maybe you need to accept that you won't be able to get a tow for as much of the sprint as you'd hoped. Whatever happens, if you're going to win, you're going to have to come around others at some point. Positioning yourself to give yourself the best possible chance is a very high level skill and even if you have the skill/tactics you still have to have the legs.

Keep practising and try to put yourself in as many sprint finishes as possible - whether that's with clubmates going for signs, in training sessions or in races. It's a learnt skill and the more you do it, the better you'll get.

Why do people talk about a 'pack' so often these days? Surely it's a 'bunch' not a 'pack'? (Sorry, I do dislike American or triathlon terms creeping into British cycling. Let triathletes ride in packs. Cyclists ride in bunches! ;-) )

Ruth

topcattim

BeaconRuth wrote:

I think you might be looking for text-book answers where none exist. If you're sheltering behind other wheels in a line approaching the finish and another line comes past then you're in the wrong line! Maybe you chose the wrong wheels to follow in the first place, maybe you need to accept that you won't be able to get a tow for as much of the sprint as you'd hoped. Whatever happens, if you're going to win, you're going to have to come around others at some point. Positioning yourself to give yourself the best possible chance is a very high level skill and even if you have the skill/tactics you still have to have the legs.

Keep practising and try to put yourself in as many sprint finishes as possible - whether that's with clubmates going for signs, in training sessions or in races. It's a learnt skill and the more you do it, the better you'll get.

Why do people talk about a 'pack' so often these days? Surely it's a 'bunch' not a 'pack'? (Sorry, I do dislike American or triathlon terms creeping into British cycling. Let triathletes ride in packs. Cyclists ride in bunches! ;-) )

Ruth

Thanks Ruth, I appreciate the point about text book answers - I do agree that I need to just spend more time in and thereabouts to work out what is going on. I'm looking forward to building the experience.

P.S.

Why do people talk about a 'pack' so often these days? Surely it's a 'bunch' not a 'pack'? (Sorry, I do dislike American or triathlon terms creeping into British cycling. Let triathletes ride in packs. Cyclists ride in bunches! ;-) )

Surely you mean peloton?

iPete

Any particular circuit?

topcattim

iPete wrote:

Any particular circuit?

It's been Ludgershall (Andover) these last couple of weeks, but this Saturday is the last one of the series, and it will then be the summer series at Thruxton. Ludgershall is about 0.7 miles, fairly open bends, but Thruxton I have no idea about.

DavidJB

There is a place to attack at ludgershall for the win Thurxton be top 3 before the final chicane or gtfo.

iPete

A club mate of mine was master of staying 4th for an entire race. As the faster paceline came down the outside he accelerated and merged in. With a bit of confidence and acceptance of some wind in the face, he would do this safely all race.

Towards the end, if you are fit enough you just need to ensure you are near the front few riders and be fit enough to start attacking/pushing early. Most people hold back and eventually they end up blocked in. When the front few riders attacked early they often created a fast paceline before the sprint point that was never caught. As you observe, most people finish the sprint where they started.

That's my experience of Hillingdon Circuit anyway.

topcattim

iPete wrote:

A club mate of mine was master of staying 4th for an entire race. As the faster paceline came down the outside he accelerated and merged in. With a bit of confidence and acceptance of some wind in the face, he would do this safely all race.

Towards the end, if you are fit enough you just need to ensure you are near the front few riders and be fit enough to start attacking/pushing early. Most people hold back and eventually they end up blocked in. When the front few riders attacked early they often created a fast paceline before the sprint point that was never caught. As you observe, most people finish the sprint where they started.

That's my experience of Hillingdon Circuit anyway.

Thanks iPete, I've definitely experienced the difficulty of holding back and getting blocked in. The bit I can't work out - yet - is how to safely move out from (in your clubmate's example) 4th, without swerving so that it disrupts the line coming through. Even if I do this smoothly, if the line is closely formed (i.e back wheel to the next person's front wheel) and close to the line it is overtaking won't there be no space for me to get into it until the back of the line comes through. When I tried to do this last week, I got shouted at (probably legitimately!)

iPete

I think it will vary from circuit to circuit, Hillingdon is more of a bunch than tight pacelines.

As long as you are shoulder checking and don't chop over front wheels, I don't see anything wrong. It may be that you can get alongside someone but you'll have to suck up some wind until a corner or point where you can merge in. Also, if the wave always comes at the same point, as they do at Hillingdon, then you can try different positions.

Something else I learnt in cat 4, if you are blocked and want to move up, just shout that you are coming up "ON YOUR LEFT ON YOUR LEFT etc.", more often than not, people get out of the way!

imposter2.0

The answer is to plan ahead. You can't expect to do all of this on the final lap at Hillingdon and expect to get away with it. If it looks like a bunch sprint, you need to be planning those moves several laps before the finish, otherwise - as others have said - you will end up boxed in and 'sprinting' at the pace of all those around you.

DeVlaeminck

I agree with all the above - you do need to plan early not try and move up late - and don't be afraid to burn a bit of energy before the sprint you can't expect an armchair ride before you open it up - you might get one but better to be well positioned than perfectly fresh and boxed in. The alternative is burn all your matches attacking during the race and see if you can get in a break - if you are aggressive enough people will notice and others who fancy it will start coming with you.

ozzzyosborn206

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I agree with all the above - you do need to plan early not try and move up late - and don't be afraid to burn a bit of energy before the sprint you can't expect an armchair ride before you open it up - you might get one but better to be well positioned than perfectly fresh and boxed in. The alternative is burn all your matches attacking during the race and see if you can get in a break - if you are aggressive enough people will notice and others who fancy it will start coming with you.

+1 much safer off the front with 4 or 5 others too, then the sprint is much more about who has the legs. In a big bunch sprint especially in a crate you get lots of people who sit in all day, only have one effort in them but very often that one effort is more than my one off effort, not sure what kind of a rider you are but guessing you don't have a better than average sprint if your not moving up positions at 4th cat?

Pross

Getting shouted at doesn't always mean you have done something wrong. It can often be someone looking to stop you taking an advantage or putting them in a worse position. As long as you check your shoulder before changing lines and don't force your way into a gap that isn't there you are fine. Basically don't do anything that makes others brake or swerve to avoid you.

JayKosta

It sounds like you've chosen the wrong paceline!
Learn who are the real 'likely winners' and shadow them.
Don't hamper yourself by getting into even a front group of non-contenders.

If your paceline seems to have the ability to really pull-away off the front and keep it to the finish, then fine. But if you're in a group just dangling a little ahead, then you'll get passed.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA