Vittoria clinchers - Open Pave CG vs Open Corsa CX

gweeds

I'm in the market for some new 'best bike' tyres and fancy a change from the usual Conti/Michelin stuff. They'll be going on a pair of Ksyrium SLR's and a pair of Dura-Ace C24's. I'll be going for 25mm's. By way of reference I've been on GP 4 Seasons and GP4000s (both 25mm's) for the last 2-3 years and some Panaracer Gravel King 25mm's over this winter. The roads around North Hants where I tend to ride are usually fairly coarse tarmac and/or country lanes (some decent width, some fairly narrow and often around farmland). I have found that some of these roads can slice up the Conti's with small flints quite common. I'm not planning on using the bike these will be on in bad weather (I'll stick to the bike with the Gravel Kings on for that).

So - reading around it seems that:

Open Corsa CX - a 'summer' tyre but quite probably one of the best riding clinchers available anywhere. Incredibly supple and fast.

Open Pave CG - the 'classics' tyre and often described as a winter tyre. Not quite as supple and fast as the Corsa but tougher.

Gut feeling tells me that the Corsa's might be a little lightweight and fragile for the roads I'm on (even in the best summer months) but compared to a mate with Michelin Pro Race 4 Grips I know my Conti's seem to attract more flints than his so maybe a compound issue, or just bad luck. Mind you, his brake fell off one day so I'll take the punctures over that.

Question to the forum then. What would you go for of the Corsa and Pave, and why?

meanredspider

I'm a great fan of the Paves. They grip very well and I've not had any puncture issues. They aren't particularly tough though and seem to wear quite quickly. They aren't the quickest tyre. Like everything, it's a little bit of a trade-off.

sloppyschleckonds

Don't the Paves cut up badly in areas of flint

Salsa

I run the Corsa's and did look at the Pave's as an alternative but like meanredspider says they seem to wear almost as quick and aren't much tougher. I just buy a new pair of Corsa's every year as Ribble tend to do them really cheap. I bought a new pair a couple of weeks ago with the 10% offer they had which brought a pair to £42 which I can live with even if they do cut up quickly. Run them with latex tubes and they are so nice that I don't care they don't last too long. I'll use them on my nice bike but not on the everyday/winter bike as they do cut up easily, my rear tyre from last year has 2 gel wrappers in to stop the tube bulging out of splits.

gweeds

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Don't the Paves cut up badly in areas of flint

This is partly why I'm asking - from anyone with experience of say Hants/Sussex/Surrey/Wilts/Kent roads

marcusjb

I rode with Open Pave CG in 2013. I rode a number of long events on them and like them quite a lot. However, I wouldn't use them again.

Lovely tyre - fast, (very) comfy, grippy.

The downside - they didn't last ever so long, cut up very easily (not to the point of failure though) and weren't particularly good against p***ture protection. And that green stripe looks rubbish with orange bikes.

I certainly wouldn't use them in wintery conditions - if there's crap been washed into the roads, these are going to be shredded pretty quickly.

It was an interesting experiment for me and they are a great tyre - however I think there's better out there for all-year round big mileages.

w00dster

I have the Open Corsa CX on one of my bikes, these have cut up more than my Bontrager R4 that are on another one of my bikes. Not had any punctures, just a small slice in the rubber on one tire and two small slices on an another. I wouldn't use them for anything over than "fast rides" on my summer bike.
All being said though, I absolutely love the Open Corsa. Can't really explain why but it just feels nicer, grippier and faster. I've accepted I may have to replace my tires more frequently, but I'm going to be swapping the R4's out this summer for these....

http://www.highonbikes.com/vittoria-ope ... oC3kjw_wcB

gweeds

I'm not so keen on the green stripe but they do an all black version now. I guess what I'm getting at is

A) how durable in terms of punctures are the Pave vs the 4 Seasons

how fast/how well do the Corsa's ride vs the GP4000s

Or am I wasting my time?

marcusjb

Gweeds wrote:

I'm not so keen on the green stripe but they do an all black version now. I guess what I'm getting at is

A) how durable in terms of punctures are the Pave vs the 4 Seasons

how fast/how well do the Corsa's ride vs the GP4000s

Or am I wasting my time?

Having ridden 3 of the tyres, I will do my best!

a) Not anywhere near as good as 4 Seasons in that respect
b) I've not ridden Corsa, but GP4000s are one of the nicest fast tyres out there, whilst still being reasonably durable and comfy.

Sorry for coming across as a Conti fanboy! 4 Seasons and 4000s are about all I need on my solo bikes for everything I do!

northpole

I suspect the comments above give you a pretty good indication of what to expect and, if you can live with that, you're able to make an informed decision.

I had a set of Pave's and won't have them again. They may have had a marginally superior ride comfort but I didn't find them particularly quick. In the Surrey hills they were flint magnets, being cut up in no time and suffering visits from the p*ncture fairies. I don't really see there being an upside to them on flinty UK roads. With regards to GP 4 Seasons, no comparison in hardiness terms

I've recently bought (but not yet fitted) a pair of Corsa's in expectation of great ride and probably durability issues. I suspect as a good all rounder for UK roads, Michelin's Pro 4 will end up as my default choice.

Peter

gweeds

Thanks all. Peter, we have similar roads so that's a concern

The Pro4 range has what, 5 models now....

northpole

Don't hold that against them! I have endurance ones yet to try - people seem to think very highly of them. I found the service course to be fine all rounders.

Peter

g00se

Haven't ridden the Vittoria Corsas, but ridden the Veloflex Corsas and love them (When Vittoria moved from Italy to Taiwan, they sold the old Italian factory to the new company Veloflex - who employed the old staff).

The Veloflex Open Corsas are very, very similar to the Vittoria ones. A lot swear that Veloflex tyres are better than Vittoria, but it may just be the Italian flag on it. One thing that is quite regularly said is that they handle better in the wet that the Vittoria Corsa CX tyres - which may be why Vittoria started making the SR.

They roll wonderfully - especially if you use Latex tubes - and 'sing' on flat tarmac. If you have wide rims, you can get the pressure down a bit and float nicely. They wear quickly - so worth swapping front to rear when it starts to square off and pop a new one on the front. Great in cornering.

I've ridden them in the same conditions as Pro-3s Pro-4 SCs and Ultremo DDs and puncture wise they're similar. Fine for summer, not for winter, and may cut up in the wet (though not as bad as the Michelins).

northpole

Strange - I found that Pro 3 and 4 were chalk and cheese, the 4's having moved the game on tremendously in terms of durability/ cut resistance. Not sure how you found them similar.

Peter

northpole

PS Possibly different road conditions - the Surrey Hills are mean on tyres!!

Peter

gweeds

OK - I'm going to take a punt on a pair of Pave CG's in 25mm and see how I get on through the spring.......

lostboysaint

Gweeds wrote:

OK - I'm going to take a punt on a pair of Pave CG's in 25mm and see how I get on through the spring.......

I ride the same sort of roads but slightly further south than you and find Michelin Pro4 Endurance are excellent. Great cut/puncture resistance, roll really well, very grippy (wet and dry) and quite voluminous for a 25mm tyre so you can drop pressures a little for that bit more comfort as you ride over all the detritus that washes out from farmyards, tracks and fields.

gweeds

lostboysaint wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

OK - I'm going to take a punt on a pair of Pave CG's in 25mm and see how I get on through the spring.......

I ride the same sort of roads but slightly further south than you and find Michelin Pro4 Endurance are excellent. Great cut/puncture resistance, roll really well, very grippy (wet and dry) and quite voluminous for a 25mm tyre so you can drop pressures a little for that bit more comfort as you ride over all the detritus that washes out from farmyards, tracks and fields.

Ta - might give them a try when these die then....

g00se

northpole wrote:

Strange - I found that Pro 3 and 4 were chalk and cheese, the 4's having moved the game on tremendously in terms of durability/ cut resistance. Not sure how you found them similar.

Peter

I found the Pro3's horrible for cutting up, but in terms of actual punctures, I found the 3s and 4s similar. True - the Pro4s were better in terms of cuts compared to the earlier ones.

DKay

Open Corsa CXs are by some way, the most supple feeling clincher I've ever used. Puncture and cut resistance is fine, until you wear through the diamond pattern tread. Once the centre tread is worn smooth in about 1200 - 1400miles, they start to puncture and slice-up really easily.

itboffin

Gweeds wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Don't the Paves cut up badly in areas of flint

This is partly why I'm asking - from anyone with experience of say Hants/Sussex/Surrey/Wilts/Kent roads

Yep I'm on your doorstep and ride all of those tyres you've mentioned for me brand new pave CX for smooth European roads, CX for wet street riding not country lanes, conti 4000s for everyday dry ish, conti grand Prix for winter commuting, veloflex are practically identical but prone to poor quality fit. The daddy of wet shite west country riding are Vredestein Fortezza TriComp

cycleclinic

The op initial post sums up these tyres they are my favourites tyres. I am currently riding schwable one tubeless but want my paves back on the bike. Might fit hem tomorrow for a change. The open corsa's are just perfect can't wait for the roads to dry out a bit and all the flint and gravel to get brushed aways.

Quite like the gp4000s too and I have a set on my old vitus But I prefer the open corsa's. The sc version is my favourite due to the tan sidewall.

gweeds

Well the Pave CG's have been ordered and will be on a bike early next week so I'll report back. If I like them I'll get a pair of the Corsa's for summer use.

DKay

thecycleclinic wrote:

Quite like the gp4000s too and I have a set on my old vitus But I prefer the open corsa's. The sc version is my favourite due to the tan sidewall.

I'm thinking about going to the SC instead of the CX for summer, but do the tan sidewalls dirty up really quickly and are impossible to clean-up?

thegreatdivide

DKay wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Quite like the gp4000s too and I have a set on my old vitus But I prefer the open corsa's. The sc version is my favourite due to the tan sidewall.

I'm thinking about going to the SC instead of the CX for summer, but do the tan sidewalls dirty up really quickly and are impossible to clean-up?

Use a little Park Tool Chain Brite degreaser on a rag, lift dirt off then wipe with a clean wet cloth. Good as new. I use it on my Veloflex Master tan tyres.

northpole

Gweeds wrote:

Well the Pave CG's have been ordered and will be on a bike early next week so I'll report back. If I like them I'll get a pair of the Corsa's for summer use.

Sometimes you've gotta scratch the itch!! Hope you like them.

Peter

gweeds

I hear that Peter!

I'll either be back with my tail between my legs or singing praises....

DKay

thegreatdivide wrote:

DKay wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Quite like the gp4000s too and I have a set on my old vitus But I prefer the open corsa's. The sc version is my favourite due to the tan sidewall.

I'm thinking about going to the SC instead of the CX for summer, but do the tan sidewalls dirty up really quickly and are impossible to clean-up?

Use a little Park Tool Chain Brite degreaser on a rag, lift dirt off then wipe with a clean wet cloth. Good as new. I use it on my Veloflex Master tan tyres.

Cheers. Good to know that you can clean them up. Wherever I could now be bothered is another matter. :?

gweeds

Put these on Kyrsium SLR's today - haven't ridden them today

Without doubt the hardest tyre/rim combination I've ever tried to mount (matron).

mattyarse

Any update on how you are finding the Pave's after a couple of weeks riding?

Be interested to hear whether they have cut up in particular from the flint issues you were worried about.

Thanks.

gweeds

Weirdly I was about to update this today.....

250 miles in now, and not a single cut or nick. They are a beautiful tyre and so supple. I've noticed the rubber is less tacky than the Conti's so I wonder if they don't collect as much crap that then sticks to the tyre surface. They corner very well and the tread seems to ward off nicks that the smoother Conti rubber picks up.

Overall I'm very very happy with them and may just run them all year round (if we do have a lovely dry summer I might try the Open Corsa's).