Mounting a third bottle cage + fuelling strategies

daniel_b

Morning all,

I plan to increase my mileage, and also with having a 18 month old daughter am planning to be leaving the house at around 5.30/6.00 am (Possibly earlier in the summer), I am considering trying to schedule in a self sufficient stop, for some hot coffee and some breakfast.

Hoping to be upping regular mileage to 50-90 miles, and plan to stop two thirds of the way through for a sit down, drink and some food.

At the moment my bikes can only take two bottle cages, and what I want to do, is use a thermos type bottle I bought (but have yet to test) to take some hot cofee along with me, and then fit some brioche/fig rolls/flap jacks or similar in the saddle bag, and transfer stuff from there into my jersey back pockets.

So that leaves me with only 1 spare bottle cage for water, and I find in the current temperatures that one bottle will last me around 30 miles, and whilst I appreciate I could schedule in a stop at a shop, I would prefer not too, as a lot of my rides are through country roads, so unless sheep or horses start selling water, that won't really work.

So the third bottle cage idea is to allow me to take one with coffee and two with water for a 60 miler, and 3 bottles of water for a 90-100 or thereabouts.

I do have a camelbak, and used them to great effect when we went on a cycling holiday in Cyprus a few years back, but if there was a way around it that would not require the wearing of a backpack, it would be preferred.

I have found this topeak one, that I would fit on the seatpost, so far, which gets reasonable reviews:



I'm guessing this can't be that rare an issue, so how do people handle it?
I do use a saddle bag, BUT have a lot of seatpost showing, so can probably fit one underneath.

dhope

Look at triathlon/aero bottle holder...
should be at least one that'll fit properly
http://www.amazon.com/Profile-Design-Aq ... B004D9WJBW

greg66_tri_v2.0

The answer:

Take some money and re-plan your route that goes past a Costa/Nero/Starbucks/whatever if you want breakfast and a hot drink. Or have breakfast when you get back. Use a saddle bag for puncture stuff. Load your pockets with flapjacks/food. Take two bidons, one or both with an electrolyte drink. Take a Ziploc bag with enough powder to make another bottle up on the route. Aim for a petrol station around 2/3 into the ride and get more water.

However, if you really want to take more stuff:

An X Lab Wing attached to the rear of your saddle rails and a pair on Bontrager RL Tri Cages are what you need. The saddle bag should attach to the Wing, hanging under it.

Have a look at Bike 3 below.

ETA: the Bontragers will *not* act as mortars with your water bottles when you hit a bump. Many behind-the-saddle cages will though.

CYCLESPORT1

Drink less water !
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... worse.html

W12_Lad

I take a third bottle in my middle jersey pocket for super long rides. Works well for me.
I don't like the hassle of stopping at shops or petrol stations when I'm riding solo (99% of the time).
Maybe I'm just unsociable.

daniel_b

Thankyou guys that is really useful, didn't know the proper name for those tri mounts - the fact it has 2 is a bonus as well, means 100 mile capacity AND room for a coffee!

I've now also found a profile design one that is similar but secures onto the seatpost as opposed to the underneath of the saddle, so a couple of options.
Thinking that might be better for also carrying a saddlebag.

il_principe

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

The answer:

Take some money and re-plan your route that goes past a Costa/Nero/Starbucks/whatever if you want breakfast and a hot drink. Or have breakfast when you get back. Use a saddle bag for puncture stuff. Load your pockets with flapjacks/food. Take two bidons, one or both with an electrolyte drink. Take a Ziploc bag with enough powder to make another bottle up on the route. Aim for a petrol station around 2/3 into the ride and get more water.

I'm with Greg. I'm in a similar position to you with a young family. Last summer I would often be out of the house by 5am/6am for a long ride (up to 100 miles). My tip is to get up at 4am and have a good breakfast/hydrate, then leave 45 mins or so to digest. Even heading out into the Chilterns it isn't difficult to plan a route that includes a Garage etc (I either take a couple of High5 sachets and buy water, or buy something like Lucozade sport). I ride with 2 x 750 ml bottles and that does me fine even if I'm slogging to keep to a 20mph av. In the past I have carried a third bottle in a jersey pocket but there didn't seem much point.

I tend not to bother with a cake stop on those rides as they add too much delay. A few bars and gels suffice.

Kieran_Burns

By the way - your Tricross Sport has the mounts for a 3rd bottle cage on the frame.

daniel_b

Il Principe wrote:

I'm with Greg. I'm in a similar position to you with a young family. Last summer I would often be out of the house by 5am/6am for a long ride (up to 100 miles). My tip is to get up at 4am and have a good breakfast/hydrate, then leave 45 mins or so to digest. Even heading out into the Chilterns it isn't difficult to plan a route that includes a Garage etc (I either take a couple of High5 sachets and buy water, or buy something like Lucozade sport). I ride with 2 x 750 ml bottles and that does me fine even if I'm slogging to keep to a 20mph av. In the past I have carried a third bottle in a jersey pocket but there didn't seem much point.

I tend not to bother with a cake stop on those rides as they add too much delay. A few bars and gels suffice.

That's pretty much my plan, getting up at 4 or 4.30, and having a big bowl of porridge, with raisins, sultanas, seeds of some sort, and maple syrup - 45 minutes to an hour is my time period for finishing breakfast up until going out, and during that time I'll watch some race, recent or old, off of Youtube.

I prep the bike the night before, and get it in the hallway so it's ready to go, get all my gear ready etc etc.

I've only used High 5 or simialr twice, and that was both on sportives - are they generally recommended for longer rides?
I see Wiggle etc sell little tabs that you can take with you.

I'm a fair bit slower than you, I think the best i can hope to manage on my summer bile will be 17/18mph, so perhaps water is all I need.

Kieran_Burns wrote:

By the way - your Tricross Sport has the mounts for a 3rd bottle cage on the frame.

This is true, but that bike (Complete with full sks mudguards) is locked in to the turbo trainer :oops:

greg66_tri_v2.0

Daniel B wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

I'm with Greg. I'm in a similar position to you with a young family. Last summer I would often be out of the house by 5am/6am for a long ride (up to 100 miles). My tip is to get up at 4am and have a good breakfast/hydrate, then leave 45 mins or so to digest. Even heading out into the Chilterns it isn't difficult to plan a route that includes a Garage etc (I either take a couple of High5 sachets and buy water, or buy something like Lucozade sport). I ride with 2 x 750 ml bottles and that does me fine even if I'm slogging to keep to a 20mph av. In the past I have carried a third bottle in a jersey pocket but there didn't seem much point.

I tend not to bother with a cake stop on those rides as they add too much delay. A few bars and gels suffice.

That's pretty much my plan, getting up at 4 or 4.30, and having a big bowl of porridge, with raisins, sultanas, seeds of some sort, and maple syrup - 45 minutes to an hour is my time period for finishing breakfast up until going out, and during that time I'll watch some race, recent or old, off of Youtube.

I prep the bike the night before, and get it in the hallway so it's ready to go, get all my gear ready etc etc.

I've only used High 5 or simialr twice, and that was both on sportives - are they generally recommended for longer rides?
I see Wiggle etc sell little tabs that you can take with you.

I'm a fair bit slower than you, I think the best i can hope to manage on my summer bile will be 17/18mph, so perhaps water is all I need.

Kieran_Burns wrote:

By the way - your Tricross Sport has the mounts for a 3rd bottle cage on the frame.

This is true, but that bike (Complete with full sks mudguards) is locked in to the turbo trainer :oops:

Slightly different take on the pre-ride feed: a couple of bananas and a glass of milk, then straight out the door. I eat Clif Bars while I ride, so on this regime I'll start on one after 30-40 mins (a large mouthful) and then have another mouthful every 30 mins or so.

I'll also take two bottles both filled with an electrolyte/carb drink.

Personally if I were to get up at 4, eat, and then wait 45 minutes, I'd be back in bed and the ride would be binned. But that's just the inner dedicated athlete in me.

il_principe

Daniel B wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

I'm with Greg. I'm in a similar position to you with a young family. Last summer I would often be out of the house by 5am/6am for a long ride (up to 100 miles). My tip is to get up at 4am and have a good breakfast/hydrate, then leave 45 mins or so to digest. Even heading out into the Chilterns it isn't difficult to plan a route that includes a Garage etc (I either take a couple of High5 sachets and buy water, or buy something like Lucozade sport). I ride with 2 x 750 ml bottles and that does me fine even if I'm slogging to keep to a 20mph av. In the past I have carried a third bottle in a jersey pocket but there didn't seem much point.

I tend not to bother with a cake stop on those rides as they add too much delay. A few bars and gels suffice.

That's pretty much my plan, getting up at 4 or 4.30, and having a big bowl of porridge, with raisins, sultanas, seeds of some sort, and maple syrup - 45 minutes to an hour is my time period for finishing breakfast up until going out, and during that time I'll watch some race, recent or old, off of Youtube.

I prep the bike the night before, and get it in the hallway so it's ready to go, get all my gear ready etc etc.

I've only used High 5 or similar twice, and that was both on sportives - are they generally recommended for longer rides?
I see Wiggle etc sell little tabs that you can take with you.

I'm a fair bit slower than you, I think the best i can hope to manage on my summer bile will be 17/18mph, so perhaps water is all I need.

IME it takes some experimentation to find what works for you. In my case SiS is a big no no. The tabs are ok but they are electrolyte only, you really want some carbs in your drink as well. I'd advise against just water, you may end up bonking or cramping.

So I use:

High 5 Energy Source 4:1 (4 part carbs 1 part protein) - IME this is excellent for (consecutive) long days in the saddle. It also contains electrolytes. I buy it by the Tub and then take a zip bag filled with some more for refills.
Mule Bars - in Apple Strudel flavour. Mule/Clif Bars are easy to chew and are the nicest I've tried
Gels - either High5 as they are cheap, or Torq as they have some good flavours i.e Apple Crumble, Rhubarb & Yoghurt.

You can of course make your own energy drink/food. I CBA.

Enjoy. I love early morning rides in the summer. There's something very satisfying about having smashed out 40/60 miles before most people have woken up. Lovely quiet roads too. The only problem on Sunday can be finding an open shop. Petrol stations are your friend.

itboffin

Il Principe wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

The answer:

Take some money and re-plan your route that goes past a Costa/Nero/Starbucks/whatever if you want breakfast and a hot drink. Or have breakfast when you get back. Use a saddle bag for puncture stuff. Load your pockets with flapjacks/food. Take two bidons, one or both with an electrolyte drink. Take a Ziploc bag with enough powder to make another bottle up on the route. Aim for a petrol station around 2/3 into the ride and get more water.

I'm with Greg. I'm in a similar position to you with a young family. Last summer I would often be out of the house by 5am/6am for a long ride (up to 100 miles). My tip is to get up at 4am and have a good breakfast/hydrate, then leave 45 mins or so to digest. Even heading out into the Chilterns it isn't difficult to plan a route that includes a Garage etc (I either take a couple of High5 sachets and buy water, or buy something like Lucozade sport). I ride with 2 x 750 ml bottles and that does me fine even if I'm slogging to keep to a 20mph av. In the past I have carried a third bottle in a jersey pocket but there didn't seem much point.

I tend not to bother with a cake stop on those rides as they add too much delay. A few bars and gels suffice.

Its pretty easy out this way to ride serious distances without coming across any shops, garages and no coffee shops, trust me i had to really search hard to find the pubs :evil:

itboffin

I see Mr 66 has taken off the mobile fondue set from bike 3

greg66_tri_v2.0

itboffin wrote:

I see Mr 66 has taken off the mobile fondue set from bike 3

Says the man who has a row of optics hanging above his handlebars...

bigmat

I guess everyone is different, but I never need that much food / drink on rides. I guess I have good reserves! I find a couple of 750ml bottles (one energy, one water) to be plenty on all but the hottest days, normally I would just take one bottle of squash / energy drink as I use the other bottle holder for toolkit bottle. Managed 120 miles round Yorkshire for the tour stage 1 with two bottles and a couple of energy bars / gels and that's pretty standard. Current "long" rides are around 50-60 miles and I will drink maybe 400ml and generally eat nothing. I would just have a good breakfast (porridge / muesli, couple of slices of toast, coffee and a hydrating drink) then get straight out there - you can digest it as you move just maybe ease into it a bit. Might need a second breakfast when you get home, but that's a lot less hassle than taking thermos flasks / planning your routes around Starbucks etc.

surrey_commuter

As Il Principe says the early mornings and petrol stations are your friend. Remember you are in Berkshire not the Gobi desert

Cycloslalomeur2

I hate stopping. If there wasn´t some good banter to be had I´d stop turning up for club rides because they keep stopping for this, that and the other reason. For 200km+ spring/summer non-stop (as in wheels never stop spinning) solo training rides I have two bottles inside the frame, two behind the saddle in a Minoura triathlon mount, two in cheap Chinese aluminium handlebar mounts and one in a cage on top of the top tube on a Decathlon rubber strappy thingy. I also have a King Cage top cap cage mount but haven´t got round to fitting it yet.

daniel_b

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Slightly different take on the pre-ride feed: a couple of bananas and a glass of milk, then straight out the door. I eat Clif Bars while I ride, so on this regime I'll start on one after 30-40 mins (a large mouthful) and then have another mouthful every 30 mins or so.

I'll also take two bottles both filled with an electrolyte/carb drink.

Personally if I were to get up at 4, eat, and then wait 45 minutes, I'd be back in bed and the ride would be binned. But that's just the inner dedicated athlete in me.

Hi Greg,

this thread has become very interesting (I have amended the subject to reflect the additional topic diversion), great to see other peoples fuelling methods - the main advantage, as I see it to your one above, is that you get more sleep!

I manage to get through the 45 minutes easily enough, as I am either getting the bike ready/getting kitted up, or watching some race on youtube whilst consuming plenty of coffee.
Your method would cut around an hour off the 'getting ready time' as long as the bike was fully prepped the night before, so I may well give that a go in the coming months to see if I can manage it.

I am expecting the arrival of some of these today:


Have noticed that after a long ride, despite consuming a pint whilst riding, and then probably 2-3 pints of water when I get home, I am still getting a bit of a headache following on from it and in the afternoon, so hoping the above might address that issue.

On a 2 bottle ride, will be planning to take one bottle of water and one high 5 bottle with me, start with the water (Whilst I am burning the energy from breakfast), use the high 5 in the middle portion of the ride, and then revert to water for the last section.

Cycloslalomeur2

Sorry, I´m a cheapskates:

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/asda-com ... 750ml.html

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/ ... ative-350g

http://www.iherb.com/ProLab-Caffeine-20 ... =null&ic=2

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Magnesiu ... null&ic=13

daniel_b

Cycloslalomeur2 wrote:

Sorry, I´m a cheapskates:

http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/asda-com ... 750ml.html

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/ ... ative-350g

http://www.iherb.com/ProLab-Caffeine-20 ... =null&ic=2

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Magnesiu ... null&ic=13

No need to apologise, cheapskating is awesome if it saves more money for more interesting things!
I applaud you sir.
Additionally I guess it means you can fine tune and tinker with the quantities of each ingredient until you find your personal ideal measures.

The way I look at it for myself, is that I will only get to do one long ride a week, so that's only 17.5p a week.
I'm not going to bother with them for sub 3 hour rides, or intervals etc etc

I will be intrigued to see if:
I get on with them
If they make any difference on the ride
If they make any difference post ride

Reviews seem to be mostly positive, but I realise that everyone can react differently to the same product.

Worst case I can send 2 tubes back for free so only £3.50 lost.

daniel_b

Just to update this, I managed to get hold of a second hand 'Aqua rack' off of ebay without any cages for about £12, and mounted it under my saddle bag (Had to flip it the other way than was intended) and fitted some elite cages I had to it.

Net result is no contact with the legs, and both bottles stayed rock solid when full AND empty!
Very pleased, as now gives me virtually 3 litre capacity - very handy when in Spain!

imatfaal

[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19710930#p19710930]Daniel B[/url] wrote:

Just to update this, I managed to get hold of a second hand 'Aqua rack' off of ebay without any cages for about £12, and mounted it under my saddle bag (Had to flip it the other way than was intended) and fitted some elite cages I had to it.

Net result is no contact with the legs, and both bottles stayed rock solid when full AND empty!
Very pleased, as now gives me virtually 3 litre capacity - very handy when in Spain!
...

Two computers, two bags, four water bottles and something else hanging off the bars that I cannot identify - now we know why you have to buy so much stuff! :-) I find when cycling in Greece that the water in bottles heats up so much that anything past the second bottle is so warm as to be undrinkable - the warmth and taste of the plastic makes my stomach heave a little bit. Either freeze them the night before [sensible and practical] - or stop in every little village and refresh with a small and cold bottle of water a/o Mythos [more fun but expensive and potentially dangerous]

daniel_b

Two computers, two bags, four water bottles and something else hanging off the bars that I cannot identify - now we know why you have to buy so much stuff! :-) I find when cycling in Greece that the water in bottles heats up so much that anything past the second bottle is so warm as to be undrinkable - the warmth and taste of the plastic makes my stomach heave a little bit. Either freeze them the night before [sensible and practical] - or stop in every little village and refresh with a small and cold bottle of water a/o Mythos [more fun but expensive and potentially dangerous]

The two puters were due to my lack of confidence in the european road maps on the 1000, which proved to be well founded when it crapped out at the beginning of one ride, so I pocketed it, resorted to the breadcrumb trail on the 500 which was fine - I sorted the 1000 later on in the week though.

The other thing is a bar extender, and the mount is for a philips saferide 80 front light.

The top tube bag was there for test purposes really, just to see if it was workable to ride with it there - and in summary it completely was for me, as it only comes into contact when honking out of the saddle and ripping the bike from side to side - encourages you to ride more efficiently I guess!
Think it will be a boon for longer rides and on the go refuelling, as I hate having to stop.

The heating up issue didn't overly occur, as we were going out at about 6.30/7.00, so well before sunrise, hence the need for lights!
Marginally brisk at that time, but still fine in shorts and sort sleeve jersey though, and soon warms up.

Only day I used all the bottle capacity (6 bottles between the 2 of us) was when we did a longer ride, but didn't get out until 9am, so not back until midday - it was properly hotting up by then!
But it was still enough to just stick them in the fridge overnight.

imatfaal

Ah the early start - I always plan it and never manage it. The top bar bag is now a fixture on my bikes - they may be advertised as fuel bags for tri-antelopes but I find they hold my smartphone, a small compact digital camera, c.cards and cash perfectly. Expensive stuff is now all in sight - stop for a rest/wander and satnav and bag get whipped off and I am happy to leave the bike.

*Dusty*

You could alternatively look to use bigger bottles. When mountain biking in the summer I found that a robinsons juice bottle fitted nicely in my cage and even on the drops, stayed put. I can't imagine it falling out of a road bike.

You could also consider one of those runners waistpacks that carries a bottle too.

Man Of Lard

Litre (1000ml) bottles aren't uncommon (SIS for example)