Winter Bike

designman

I have a Kinesis Racelight T2 for my winter bike fitted with Shimano Tiagra groupset, shimano R501 wheels but feel it's not spinning up, feels very sluggish, doesn't accelerate, not compared to say my summer bike which is a madone with DA 7900 groupset.
So I was curious, if I was to upgrade the groupset and wheels say to Ultegra, would the performance be any better?

sloppyschleckonds

Maybe you're not as fit this time of year?

iron-clover

The wheels and tyres can have a big impact- I don't find the R501s too weighty by themselves but when paired with heavy winter rubber they do make a very noticeable difference.

You could always try putting the wheels from your Madone onto the T2 on one of the fine dry days (like today) and see how it compares with the normal wheels.

If it still feels similar (although I thought the T2s were OK on the power transfer side) then it could well be that you are losing some power through the frame.

As Sloppy says though, you could also just be feeling the effects of the colder weather- just looking at my segment times against time for a local hill I ride up pretty much every week I can see distinct seasonal variation with the fastest times always when it is warm- same effect with TT times as I think my muscles just prefer the warmer weather.
I guess you've ridden your Madone recently though to see if this is the case?

markhewitt1978

Well in general you wouldn't expect your winter bike to be as fast and light as your summer one.

As said put your summer wheels on the winter bike and compare.

ai_1

In winter I wear tights and overshoes and I may put on a small amount of weight. All of these increase moving mass and I'd expect them to have much bigger impact on acceleration than wheel mass, frame flex or anything to do with the groupset. Also my legs are often cooler - even if not actually cold. I typically ride a bit less and I'm therefore not in my best form so I'm slower and my legs feel less energetic. I'd put nearly every perceived difference in performance down to these rather than the bike.

stueys

There's a 45 minute segment that I use on one of my training loops as a good benchmark. I went around it two weeks back on my winter bike, averaged 25watts more power than my PR run yet was over 4 minutes slower.

It's a rolling segment with two chunky climbs on it and a fast flat section, so I put the difference down to;
- Weight - my winter bike is about 3 kg heavier than my nice summer bike by the time you factor winter rubber, guards, etc all in. Plus there's the fact that I'm wearing winter gear (jacket, bib tights, gloves) which are all adding
- Aero - My winter bike is a CX bike with nice 28 wide tyres on it, chunky full mudguards (nicely catching the wind) and big clearances. What it isn't is aero and you can feel the difference once you go north of 17-18mph, it's just harder to push along.
- Air density - this is my mates theory, I'm not entirely convinced but he thinks the air is denser when it's colder so it's harder to go faster in. You can decide whether you buy into that theory or not....

What I can see empirically is that a greater power output translates to a slower average speed on my winter bike on most of my segments, it's especially pronounced on climbs. Hopefully that will all be goodness come summer.

holiver

Well your 2 bikes are classes apart. My 57cm T2 frame and fork weighs a combined ~2.3kg. Your Madone frame and fork is probably approaching 1kg less !

You could weigh both of your bikes to see how much difference there really is.

ai_1

Stueys wrote:

....
- Air density - this is my mates theory, I'm not entirely convinced but he thinks the air is denser when it's colder so it's harder to go faster in. You can decide whether you buy into that theory or not....

That's accurate. Warmer air maintains a higher pressure for a lower mass. Air resistance decreases with an increase in ambient temperature or a decrease in ambient pressure.

cougie

Definitely cold dense air plays a part. That's why they heat the velodrome for Hour Records etc.

Was definitely harder work at the weekend in the cold damp air.

You'd notice zero improvement from upgrading the groupset.
Wheels - well maybe depending what you have and where you go to with it.

It's not meant to be easy cycling in the winter anyway. :-)

keef66

Air density will be a significant factor. I'm 1-2 mph slower in the winter whichever bike I ride. I notice the car's average fuel consumption rises as the temperature falls too.

markhewitt1978

I think in the specific case of the car that's more to do with the operating temperature of the engine and exhaust system rather than air density. In winter the engine management unit will deliberately burn more fuel in order to bring the engine up to temperature, in summer it doesn't need to do this.

But for bikes given that something like 80% of the effort is in pushing through the air, even a small change in the air density can have a big change.

jgsi

You got a power meter on a winter hack?

stueys

JGSI wrote:

You got a power meter on a winter hack?

Vector, it moves with me

Bordersroadie

designman wrote:

I have a Kinesis Racelight T2 for my winter bike fitted with Shimano Tiagra groupset, shimano R501 wheels but feel it's not spinning up, feels very sluggish, doesn't accelerate, not compared to say my summer bike which is a madone with DA 7900 groupset.
So I was curious, if I was to upgrade the groupset and wheels say to Ultegra, would the performance be any better?

Are you trolling or actually being serious?

My T2 is flying, even with full mudguards filled with mud, Gator hardshells, wet, muddy roads, cold dense air, heavy, damp clothing and headwinds in every direction, what's the matter with you, man? A new groupset? Just pedal harder.

Matthewfalle

There will be absolutely n difference in performance, it will just be nicer to ride so you'll ride it more and get fitter and therefore go faster.

Then again, Ultegra won't last as long in a yukky winter as Tiagra so you'll have to replace bits more/be more gutted when you smash it up.

Just ride it. Rule 5.