Am I layering up incorrectly..........?

daniel_b

So I went for a 50 miler yesterday morning, temp here was 4-5C, cloudy, light winds.

Went for:

Mavic Echappee bibtights
Craft Active base layer
Giordana silverline long sleeve jersey (Not that thick)
Mavic Echappee jacket
Cap under my very ventilated helmet
Giordana Nordic gloves
Planet X winter socks
Etxeondo overshoes

I tend to feel the cold, so decided to go on the warmer side - first time I have worn the craft active base layer though.
I felt spot on once I got up to speed, really good, but then in the second half of the ride I started to feel a bit cold.
On getting home it became apparent that all 3 layers were pretty wet, from humidity I guess, and it not being able to escape I suppose.

So did I do something wrong, should I have worn a thinner base layer, or just a base layer under the jacket?
Though I suspect I would not have been warm enough without a jersey, but I can try it of course - maybe with a buff to stop any air getting in down my collar.

the_rover

Id have gone without the jersey under the jacket and wore a gilet until you've warmed up?
I wear a similar set up and put on/take off the gilet as required.

meanredspider

Yes - one layer too many for me. I hate gilets - only ever worn one for descending.

Anonymous

Castelli san remo with a merino wool base layer. Thats all you need.

crikey

Are you really asking us how to get dressed to ride your bike?

You've got 6 bikes to ride, get a grip lad.

meanredspider

crikey wrote:

Are you really asking us how to get dressed to ride your bike?

You've got 6 bikes to ride, get a grip lad.

I know - I'm slightly surprised because Daniel buys more kit in a week than I do a year! Maybe Morrison's gear isn't much cop

olake92

I'd say you're not wearing enough. My other advice is, if it's not raining, drop the rain jacket and wear an extra base layer (or a s/s jersey beneath a l/s jersey) and a gilet over your jersey, chuck a buff around your neck too. Take the rain jacket with you but stuff it in a pocket.

I feel the cold and always get back from winter rides quite sweaty, but not cold if I've dressed adequately. I usually go for one extra base layer as well as all the other layers (so 5 layers and an optional jacket) It also depends on how hard you're working. If you go out hard and head home easy, you've built up a sweat but are no longer heating up as much.

meanredspider

I can confidently say I've never worn 5 layers of anything in my entire life. I'm not sure I've even worn 4. And I've ridden down to -11C

luv2ride

I reckon one too many layers. I was having the same thing a year or so ago, but then stopped wearing so much and found myself much more comfortable, so I'd ditch the LS jersey. If you're a bit chilly for the first 10-15 mins then that means you'll be at a good temp all the way around once you've warmed up and are working. I always take a packable windproof / rain shell with me though just in case I do get a chill (Sportful Hot Pack or Mavic Helium pack down tiny). Also a tip I just picked up from GCN is also to take a spare base layer in a freezer bag in your rear pocket, so you can change in the gents at the cafe stop. I can see this would make the return leg a lot more comfortable. I also use the Echappee bibs and jacket and they're a good combo (despite the Morrison logo )

Mind you, now I've got the Sportful R&D wind jersey the Echapee is going on Ebay...much more breathable, so much less chance of getting damp and chilly on the inside. Excellent bit of kit.

robbo2011

Lots of differing opinions here, but the reality is with winter riding is that if you put some effort into the ride, you will sweat and it will be too cold for the sweat to evaporate so you will eventually get wet.

The trick is to find the combination of clothing that allows you to stay warm when your gear is wet. It's trial and error I'm afraid.

nweststeyn

From temps between 2 degrees and 8 degrees I wear 2 base layers and a jersey. Never a jacket.

olake92

meanredspider wrote:

I can confidently say I've never worn 5 layers of anything in my entire life. I'm not sure I've even worn 4. And I've ridden down to -11C

I call it quits at 0 degrees C, even with my many layers. What can I say? I bow down to your superior insulation

southdownswolf

Baselayer and a decent windproof long sleeve jersey is fine for most riding when dry. I normally have a showerproof jacket folded into the middle pocket of my jersey in case I get cold. Might be a bit cold to begin with, but within 10 minutes or so I have warmed up and feel fine for the rest of the ride. The lightweight jacket will keep you warm if you need to stop for a while.

overlord2

4-5C

Youre lucky been around 0 most of winter here. It did brighten up this week at 5C so I put some shorts on

meanredspider wrote:

I can confidently say I've never worn 5 layers of anything in my entire life. I'm not sure I've even worn 4. And I've ridden down to -11C

Base layer, bibs, baselayer, long jersey, jacket = 5 layers. Hardly Michelin man material.

alistaird

Went out this morning (about 3 degrees) in Mavic winter jacket with merino long sleeve base layer, gore windstopper bib tights, shimano winter 'boots', scott skull cap under the helmet and was very warm.

Made the mistake of going out last week in a Rapha Transfer Jacket (bought in the sale :twisted: ) with a base layer and t-shirt. Never again, way too warm. If you want something light and warm then this jacket is the one for you. It's so warm and light that it's going in the bag for skiing in a couple of weeks.

A

stueys

Everyone feels the cold differently so I'm not sure how much benefit this conversation will be. Yesterday, 4.5 degrees, I had an under armour compression base layer on, rapha pro team jacket and a rapha city wind jacket until I had warmed up. Once warm I was just in the pro team and base layer and pretty much spot on. Too many layers will impact the wicking and breathability of your gear, leaving you wet and then colder.

bianchimoon

when it gets to 0º or lower I just wear one layer, the buffalo cycle shirt, not recommended to wear any other layers with it, between 1-5º base layer, mid layer, jacket, 5º+ base/mid/gillet

daniel_b

Thanks chaps, mostly useful stuff!

I have a feeling what I was wearing would have been suitable for 0 degrees, but it's clearly a fine line.

I think the key is that you should be slightly cold when you first start out, and then fine after 5 minutes or so when you are warmed up.

Meanredspider - buying kit is part of the problem you see, if I had regular kit I used day in day out, I would know it's operating temperatures, the jersey and jacket I know well, the craft base layer was having it's first outing, so an unknown - prior to this year had not used base layers at all, so it's new territory for me.

indyp

I find ls craft base layer with windproof jersey/jacket is all I need at around those temps (Alpha/Pro Team), but I do run hot. I'd suggest keep experimenting and you'll soon find what suits you best, and quite quickly. I'd definitely second that you should feel the cold for around 15-20 minutes when setting off before reaching a comfortable temperature. If you're warm within 5 minutes then I think you're going to overheat later.

daniel_b

indyP wrote:

I find ls craft base layer with windproof jersey/jacket is all I need at around those temps (Alpha/Pro Team), but I do run hot. I'd suggest keep experimenting and you'll soon find what suits you best, and quite quickly. I'd definitely second that you should feel the cold for around 15-20 minutes when setting off before reaching a comfortable temperature. If you're warm within 5 minutes then I think you're going to overheat later.

Thanks Indy, clearly takes a bit of experimenting.

I bought some Helly Hansen base layers recently, and I was still cold with that on and a jersey and jacket, so have a feeling this craft one is that much more effective, combined with the slightly warmer temperatures, and slow wind speeds.

I will have a mess around with options for next weekend.

Usually I am fine, so can only put this down to the new base layer.

debeli

We are all different and all feel the chill in different ways.

Dress as you want to.

After a few rides in this or that weather, you'll come to a view about what suits you best.

There is not an 'answer' that someone on the Internet can just take from a shelf and hand to you.

Take a look at other cyclists when you ride in the wet/cold/frost/summer sunshine.... Few will be dressed in the same way on any given day.

My knees go funny (hurty funny) in the cold, so I wear longs in warm weather. My kids do not.

My middle kid wears a cap under a helmet in the cold - I don't wear a helmet, just a woolly hat. He wears full-finger gloves in the summer and I wear fingerless gloves in the frost. We're both right.

There isn't a set of rules, apart from the one that says that if you know the brand name of all your cycling clothing you might be better employed in the fashion industry. Sorry, but really.....

indyp

I own several HH baselayers which I use everyday and they're great for keeping warm during winter, but don't like them as much as synthetic material (Craft,Gore) when out on the bike as I find they tend to hold moisture and then I feel the cold in them. Last week I had a craft baselayer underneath Alpha jersey and was pretty soaked with sweat when stopped at my mates, but about 15 minutes later the baselayer had dried out which left me warm again - I don't get that with merino wool.

vinnymarsden

Went out on Sat 14/2/ about 3 degrees….Vest base layer..Helly Hansen long sleeve top..(excellent bit of kit, I only named it so ppl might know what to look for…not to be all precious a la Rapah) and a windproof long sleeved breathable jacket with venting zips…Long windstop type tights/overshoes, and no skull cap… Gore gloves and it was perfect…but like many others say..once you stop you feel the cold/moisture and need to keep moving..i' not sure theres a solution for the average walleted rider!! I think the secret is…shorter coffee stop!!!

Ben6899

5/6C you didn't need the jersey and you'd have been okay with 3/4 bibs.

daniel_b

Ben6899 wrote:

5/6C you didn't need the jersey and you'd have been okay with 3/4 bibs.

I suspect you are correct, although my 3/4 ones aren't as good pad wise.......

Thanks Vinny and Indy too, pleased to see the useful replies are vastly outweighing the not so useful ones ;-)

lostboysaint

Back to the OP and all that the dampness tells you is that there is a mis-match in the breathability of the garments, so somewhere in the chain a layer isn't wicking fast enough to allow the others to work correctly.

I tend to use an Under Armour base layer, an Endura long sleeved top and an Altura convertible windproof gilet/jacket. I know that this combination is "dry" when I get home regardless of effort expended. On really cold days I have used a BTwin softshell jacket over the top and I get "wet layers" because the softshell isn't breathable enough compared to the other layers.

daniel_b

lostboysaint wrote:

Back to the OP and all that the dampness tells you is that there is a mis-match in the breathability of the garments, so somewhere in the chain a layer isn't wicking fast enough to allow the others to work correctly.

I tend to use an Under Armour base layer, an Endura long sleeved top and an Altura convertible windproof gilet/jacket. I know that this combination is "dry" when I get home regardless of effort expended. On really cold days I have used a BTwin softshell jacket over the top and I get "wet layers" because the softshell isn't breathable enough compared to the other layers.

Thanks lbs (Nice acronym), that's the kind of 'diagnosis' I was kind of hoping for, as these are all meant to be reasonably competent technical garments.

I wonder if it is the Giordana jersey, as whilst it's not a long sleeve jersey it's not the thinnest of items.

But I think the issue is probably above all that I wore too much warm stuff for the temperature on the day, and it couldn't cope, or rather wick properly as you say.

Don't think I can blame the garmets for that - think if I get cold with just a base layer and a jacket, might try a gilet inbetween - I have some cheap Scott ones, which would just keep th etorso warm.

Cheers

Dan

ai_1

Down to freezing I'm okay with 3 layers as follows:
Campagnolo Steamer bib tights
Helly Hansen Warm Freeze base layer (lifa/merino combo)
summer jersey
Giordana raincoat
DHB buff
Lazer Genesis helmet with "aero cover" to cover vents.
Giro merino socks
summer shoes with vent on the sole taped up
Grip-Grab Hammer Head overshoes
Pearl Izumi cyclone full finger gloves

Fingers can be a little chilly until I get wamed up but then they're fine. As you'd expect I always finish damp under the raincoat but doesn't feel like it while riding.

itboffin

i hate the cold so layer up much as you did, usually when its minus temps for that many layers, however i have just one Craft base for the very same reason you've identified, they seem to hold moisture against the skin which after a long ride with a stop is bloody cold. The only other base i've found that does that is the mesh spesh summer long sleeve.

thermal short sleeved base layers for me all the way

overlord2

You need to factor in for breakdowns as well. It's alright being nice and toasty in 2 layers with a heart rate of 170. Puncture or have a mechanical you will get cold and hypothermia will set it very very quickly. I've been there it is not pleasant.

meanredspider

Overlord2 wrote:

You need to factor in for breakdowns as well. It's alright being nice and toasty in 2 layers with a heart rate of 170. Puncture or have a mechanical you will get cold and hypothermia will set it very very quickly. I've been there it is not pleasant.

Definitely - always take an extra windproof/water resistant layer with me. Doesn't need to be breathable just needs to keep you warm and it helps if it packs down small. My Montane Featherlite is remarkably effective for this purpose.