Warm winter jacket for non-Badass

DavidfromWarboys

Hey, seen a thread or two kinda referring to this but not quite so a bit confused.

I have an Assos 851 air jacket which is lovely but it does not feel warm to me. I run a bit colder than most I think. The Assos is a fab three season Jacket but even on a cold Autumn/Spring morning when I set off for my commute at 06:30 I can be chilly (throughout the ride).

So I'm looking for a warm winter jacket for a non-Badass but I'm after something with a "race fit". And I'd really like to just be able to wear on of my Merino base layers under it.

So far I'm thinking Castelli Alpha which Merlin are doing for £162. I like Rapha and have some of their stuff but the race Pro just isn't getting me excited.

What else should I look at (obviously, that would be on the web cos non of my LBS's stock any this stuff!).

Thanks,

DfW

robbo2011

I use an 851 and i think a lot depends on what baselayer you wear. The warmest baselayer i have is an old underarmour cold gear one and it works well with the 851 down to about freezing. Below freezing, i wear the base layer and a gilet under the 851 with armwarmers over the base layer. Last weekend i used this combo down to -6 with a bitter easterly wind and was fine for a 3 hour ride. I think you do need to layer with the 851 as it is not windproof all around.

The alpha jacket would be warmer than the 851, but is it worth buying an expensive jacket when a bit of layering would do the trick?

gsk82

I agree with David but I'll be a bit less diplomatic. If you're cold in an airjack you're doing something else wrong. You won't find a warmer jacket than it so no point buying something else. I think someone is just looking for an excuse to spend some money.

DavidfromWarboys

Thanks for the reply. For my last decent ride of 52 miles on a Saturday afternoon the weatherman said it was 5dC down to about 1dC with the wind chill. I wore two merino base layers, my Rapha Jersey (not a particularly thin one) and then the 851 and at my warmest I was just warm enough. I don't want to wear 4 layers especially when the thermometer says it isn't actually that cold.

Maybe just a bit fussy and from what I reading on here this afternoon it sounds like I feel the cold quite a bit more than most :-(

meanredspider

I'm another 851 fan and would absolutely agree that layering will solve your problem. I do have a Castelli Mannaggia Due thing (no longer available) which I use for brutally cold weather (heading towards -10C) but it's too warm for anything above freezing (it also looks a bit silly) or unless I'm really pootling.

So, layer up (I also have the UA Coldgear base layer)

DavidfromWarboys

I really like my Assos (it won't be going on eBay whatever I buy) but without loads of layers it's just not keeping me warm in the very cold even with 4 layers.

Don't need an excuse ;-)

meanredspider

DavidfromWarboys wrote:

I really like my Assos (it won't be going on eBay whatever I buy) but without loads of layers it's just not keeping me warm in the very cold even with 4 layers.

Don't need an excuse ;-)

I think you'll need to go with something with Arctic in its name them. I don't think any of the mainstream jackets is going to do it for you

src1

I have an assos 851 and really like it, but it's not good enough on its own when you get weather like we've had recently. I used to wear a gilet over it in cold weather and that works ok, esp. as you can take it off when things warm up. Something like a castelli fawesome gilet is ideal.

However, last winter I bought a castelli transparent due and that's lovely for really cold days.

robbo2011

DavidfromWarboys wrote:

Thanks for the reply. For my last decent ride of 52 miles on a Saturday afternoon the weatherman said it was 5dC down to about 1dC with the wind chill. I wore two merino base layers, my Rapha Jersey (not a particularly thin one) and then the 851 and at my warmest I was just warm enough. I don't want to wear 4 layers especially when the thermometer says it isn't actually that cold.

Maybe just a bit fussy and from what I reading on here this afternoon it sounds like I feel the cold quite a bit more than most :-(

Hmm, I would have though at 5 degC, just a single base layer would be good enough. maybe those merino base layer thingies are not that warm.

What about the rest of your gear, are you wearing proper winter tights and winter skullcap etc?

pippi_langsamer-2

In the near decade I've owned the same 851, I've never found the need to wear anything more than a good ls base layer underneath. My choice is Helly Hansen Warm Freeze 1/2 zip. Expensive, but it's almost as old as the 851 and is superb. If I had to wear a gilet over them, it would probably be -10 and I'd be in bed anyway...

DrLex

If you're interested in a Mavic Propane, which is a real cold weather jacket, I've a medium (UK; international Large) that I found way too warm on the few (1/2 dozen) occasions that I wore it that I've been meaning to sell. I don't know about non-Badass, but it's a bit Power Ranger-ish...

daniel_b

DrLex wrote:

If you're interested in a Mavic Propane, which is a real cold weather jacket, I've a medium (UK; international Large) that I found way too warm on the few (1/2 dozen) occasions that I wore it that I've been meaning to sell. I don't know about non-Badass, but it's a bit Power Ranger-ish...

lol, I was just going to mention that jacket!

I ordered one from CRC but sent them back as I couldn't see myself ever needing that level of warmth.

It's got a thinish layer of quilting all over, if that does not keep you warm, I don't think anything will.

cougie

I was out in 2 degrees in fog last week in this. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-windslam-ro ... ve-jersey/ with a long sleeve merino top under. Very warm and very cheap.

robbo2011

The windslam certainly looks like a good piece, but how will it be warmer than the airjack? Compare the two: windproof front and front of sleeves, check. Roubaix type breathable fleece on rear of jacket and rear of sleeves, check. In addition, the airjack uses 851 fabric whch is incredibly warm.

If the op is set on buying a new jacket, he should be looking for one with all around windproofing. That is the only way he will get something significantly warmer than the airjack. The alpha jacket would be a good choice and the mavic suggestion above looks good too. He could also look for an assos fugujack as this has all around 851 fabric, this would be an incredibly warm jacket, if a bit old fashioned looking these days.

Monty Dog

Assos is fine if you keep moving / high intensity riding but isn't really suitable for sub-zero IMO - full windstopper, front and back for when it's really cold, particularly if you're doing 3-4 hour rides. Gore Windstoper fabrics are the best - they wear and hold their colour a lot better than Asso which looks washed-out after a winter season - plenty of choice from Castelli or Gore Bike Wear,

bendertherobot

gsk82 wrote:

I agree with David but I'll be a bit less diplomatic. If you're cold in an airjack you're doing something else wrong. You won't find a warmer jacket than it so no point buying something else. I think someone is just looking for an excuse to spend some money.

Hmm. It's a bit odd Assos made a Fugujack then, isn't it?

meanredspider

bendertherobot wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

I agree with David but I'll be a bit less diplomatic. If you're cold in an airjack you're doing something else wrong. You won't find a warmer jacket than it so no point buying something else. I think someone is just looking for an excuse to spend some money.

Hmm. It's a bit odd Assos made a Fugujack then, isn't it?

Castelli seem to have about 50 jackets on the go at any one time They can't ALL be for different needs

bendertherobot

meanredspider wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

I agree with David but I'll be a bit less diplomatic. If you're cold in an airjack you're doing something else wrong. You won't find a warmer jacket than it so no point buying something else. I think someone is just looking for an excuse to spend some money.

Hmm. It's a bit odd Assos made a Fugujack then, isn't it?

Castelli seem to have about 50 jackets on the go at any one time They can't ALL be for different needs

They're even worse. Fortunately the well informed consumer knows he only needs two of them 8)

northpole

Interesting question!

I have the 851 Airjack, the Alpha and the rapha pro jacket, the latter my least preferred in cold weather.

The Alpha is quite new to me and I feel like I'm still getting used to it. It's a bit strange in that you think such a slight jacket can't be particularly good in the cold and yet, with so much wind block material, however thin it may be, it certainly seems to work very well. I noticed quite a big difference during the recent cold snap between wearing a rapha merino 'neck thingy' and not - huge difference the draft can make if you are running a bit cold. Also noticed I built up quite a sweat in the merino base layers - the flip side of wind block material I guess! Thing is, if you are inclined to stop for coffee, best not to sit outside in the cold or your body temperature could fall quickly.

Where I'm struggling though is to make a call between thermal performance of the 851 and Alpha. Because it's not so obvious to me, I'd suggest there isn't alot of difference between them. Where you'll notice most difference (apart from in the rain) is in fit. An xl airjack will have more room for layering underneath than an xl alpha if you find it's not warm enough for you. Sticking a warm gillet over the top would seem a bit self defeating to me (not a big gillet fan!).

Hence as others have said, if the airjack isn't warm enough on cold days, you may be better off looking beyond the alpha at something heavier duty again and accepting that you may only be using it a few weeks in the year - make sure you like the colours!

Peter

kajjal

Monty Dog wrote:

Assos is fine if you keep moving / high intensity riding but isn't really suitable for sub-zero IMO - full windstopper, front and back for when it's really cold, particularly if you're doing 3-4 hour rides. Gore Windstoper fabrics are the best - they wear and hold their colour a lot better than Asso which looks washed-out after a winter season - plenty of choice from Castelli or Gore Bike Wear,

I use a gore windstopper which is lined in the colder months and have a gore active shell for warmer months and showers. It depends on what you need and what fits you best.