Going Single front ring

njee20

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I managed fine in the lake district, only resorting to pushing when it got steep enough to struggle keeping the front wheel down.

It didn't get you up 'any' hill then did it. It was adequate until your front wheel was lifting...

The Rookie

And if someone with a lower gearing can get up pedalling it would imply that the fault was either with the rider or the gearing?

njee20

FWIW, I agree with the sentiment, but would phrase it differently - my take is that I've yet to find a hill that I can't clear with a single ring that I could if I had a lower gear. Not to say I can ride everything, or that there are climbs the others can ride that I can't (same gearing or not), but that it's not a compromise for me. If it was then I'd not stick with it, sod walking.

The Rookie

I occasionally ride a hill you'd have to be very good to clear with that gearing, 2000' climb on an average 6% grade but with sections that are at 18% for a few hundred meters at a time.

angry_bird

I used to ride 1x9 running 34 up front with 11-34 at the back. If I'm honest it wasn't ideal. Personally I always managed getting up hills, whether they were just steep muddy banks or proper things over in the Peaks, Lake District and Wales... but it was harder work than it needed to be. I got used it fairly quickly but then I know when a couple of people tried out my bike they hated it.

njee20

The Rookie wrote:

I occasionally ride a hill you'd have to be very good to clear with that gearing, 2000' climb on an average 6% grade but with sections that are at 18% for a few hundred meters at a time.

That's not that steep, just take a while! Wouldn't have an issue with 1x11 on that.

rockmonkeysc

I would give it a bash. I think I could do it on a good day. I wouldnt look pretty at the top but I think I could just about do it.

The Rookie

Not really practical to challenge you on that RM given where it is, yes you could do the gradient on that gearing, but it's being able to put out enough torque for the time required!
Strava segment,
https://www.strava.com/segments/6810784?filter=overall
Note that this didn't used to be passable on road bikes but it is now as they've changed the rough gravel track to tarmac, I've not been up there since they finished the work.

Another one you may not want to try on that gearing
https://www.strava.com/segments/4353034
This is good quality tarmac (private road), but getting to the base of the climb via public roads on a road bike isn't much fun!

njee20

I'm gonna say it... I don't think there's a tarmaced road, anywhere in the world I couldn't ride on a single ring MTB gearing.

I am assuming the 340% section of "Escape from Lavasa" isn't wholly accurate though.

Look at the KOM average speeds on both of those segments - 9.2mph and 11.6mph. That's not "barely passable whilst grinding out 22/36", that's spinning a fairly comfy gear!

The Rookie

Yeah there is a glitch in that one....this one is a better one and includes the flat section before as this is the course used for an annual race.
https://www.strava.com/segments/5728526

For both I used a lowest of 22/28 gearing - lowest gear when I was renting a 3x7 and second lowest on a 3x8 (a little bit of shifting occasionally), that equates to a 32/40 1x MTB (so yes it is possible) but a long way from RM's 38T front which I still think would be rather difficult, but then you are both a fair bit younger than me (and that was on 15Kg low end clunkers).

paul.skibum

I run 30/42 on the Bronson to ensure I can get up 98.3% of all climbs (one loose and steep jeep track always defeats me), I run 36/36 on the Hardtail which doesnt go up the same tracks as a general rule. 36/36 seems fine for anything with tarmac.

njee20

The Rookie wrote:

Yeah there is a glitch in that one....this one is a better one and includes the flat section before as this is the course used for an annual race.
https://www.strava.com/segments/5728526

For both I used a lowest of 22/28 gearing - lowest gear when I was renting a 3x7 and second lowest on a 3x8 (a little bit of shifting occasionally), that equates to a 32/40 1x MTB (so yes it is possible) but a long way from RM's 38T front which I still think would be rather difficult, but then you are both a fair bit younger than me (and that was on 15Kg low end clunkers).

Nope, still confident I could do any road climb with 38-36 bottom gear, even more so with an expander! I've done this climb on my road bike several times with a 39-25 bottom gear, not that bad at all. Admittedly nothing steep, but constant. Not to say that's the case for everyone though, but that's the point with all of these gearing quandaries, it's personal!

Interestingly Richard McDowell, who's second on your segment Rookie, lives in my neck of the woods and is an active poster on Singletrackworld (Turboferret).

Caveman_Chris

RockmonkeySC wrote:

With a clutch mech you wont need any more retention. You will soon find that you use a small ring because its there when you really could get up the hill without it and you will do it faster.
I dont think it uses any more energy to crank up in a single ring than it does to spin away in a granny gear. You do need a bit more leg strength but theres only one way to build that, go ahead and do it.
My lowest gear is 34t-40t and i cant remember the last time i failed to ride up a climb and Im just an average, mid thirties, slightly overweight rider on a slightly heavy bike.

This is very true. Just went from 22-36 to a 30-36 and got up the same hill no problem. It's all mental. It's like walking across joists in the loft.... Fine until you the ceiling is gone and you can see the floor.

The Rookie

Well your probably a lot fitter than me Nick, comparing my times to the best though and assuming you would be doing the same speed, you cadence would be fairly low on a 38:36, assuming I was at 80 plus you,d be down at circa 40....that's pretty tiring and the point I was trying to make on a hill of that duration.

And that's an amazing coincidence!

rockmonkeysc

You need to keep a reasonable cadence. Climbing with a single ring needs to be faster than with a granny.
I actually find it difficult following someone with a granny ring up a hill because they are too slow.

njee20

The Rookie wrote:

Well your probably a lot fitter than me Nick, comparing my times to the best though and assuming you would be doing the same speed, you cadence would be fairly low on a 38:36, assuming I was at 80 plus you,d be down at circa 40....that's pretty tiring and the point I was trying to make on a hill of that duration.

And that's an amazing coincidence!

But we'd not be going the same speed, which was my point - 1x10 works for me because I could keep going faster. 80rpm in 38/36 on a 29er is 7mph - 40 rpm being less than 3.5mph. That'd be plenty for any road. Off road I'd want lower though.

The Rookie

Sorry I meant the same speed as the fastest person, not me!

njee20

But that's 14mph, which you could do comfortably in a 44t chain ring! Certainly wouldn't need a small gear for that :?

andy37

So ive just gone from a triple on my Orange 5 to a 1 x 10 in the way of 34-11,36 and was initially quite concerned that i might have bitten off more than i can chew even though i am reasonably fit and my climbing being better than my descending (dont need the big balls to climb). I live in the NW so we definitely have sizeable hills round here and before i would use my bottom gear on every ride at some point and spend a high percentage of the climbs in the granny, however i now see that as just me being lazy because i am doing just fine on my 1 x 10 set up.
I only changed to this set up for cleanliness, to stop chain slap and for somewhere to route my mechanical dropper not for kudos on climbing ability. Its gearing not bragging rights, you just pick the range that suits you for where you ride but for me the clean lines, less mechanical waste on your bike wins over plus its cheap to convert buying all new kit with zee cranks down to £75 now.

The Rookie

njee20 wrote:

But that's 14mph, which you could do comfortably in a 44t chain ring! Certainly wouldn't need a small gear for that :?

Average over the climb section of the race was 10.5mph (next fastest - Richard - was then 9.7mph leading a bunched group showing how fast that 10.5mph is), Jan has long sections at sub 8mph from 5.5miles in for a mile on the analysis of that climb. The first half is slightly downhill and he averaged 21mph on that part.
https://www.strava.com/activities/90210753#1887339999
Climb section is 'Lavasa from damn to top of Lavasa'.
The Fastest I know on the leaderboard who is on an MTB is number 28 Nathan Gabbot (who I work with) who averaged 5.9mph on the climb, all be it on a 14.5Kg entry level bike.

njee20

The MTB thing is a red herring, a pretty marginal difference, most of the speed difference is aero, which isn't that relevant at 5mph.

I get what you're saying, but honestly, that would not be a tough climb with a single MTB ring. I'd probably want a compact on the road bike if I doing that sort of thing a lot, or at least a semi-compact. So a 36-28 bottom gear or so. That would be plenty.

The places where a single ring is tough are steep and rough off road climbs. Roads are never that steep and as such a single ring will never pose a problem. You've still got significantly lower gearing than on a road bike. Even at 6mph you're still doing more than 80rpm in 36/40, 8mph is >100rpm (assuming a 29er, on 26" wheels it's another 0.5mph slower). Hardly grinding away! Few will sustain that sort of cadence naturally.

The Rookie

Maybe next race there I'll take my MTB out and try it then! At least on a race day I'd get a car out and not do the circa 25 miles to the base (including one largish hill).....

njee20

Again though, I didn't say you could do it on a single ride, as I have no idea how fit or strong you are, and you've previously stated a penchant for spinning, just said that I could do it! ;-)

If you can't though, don't go pulling the "well I'm on a mountain bike" excuse, won't fly!

The Rookie

Haha, I don't do excuses......

Snooze

I have just converted my 2 X 10 XT drivetrain to 1 X 10 using OneUp Components. I decided to try OneUp as they provide parts to address the whole of the drivetrain. I carried out the cassette modification using their 42T and 16T sprockets, modified the XT rear mech using their RAD Cage and converted the crankset using their 30T NW chain ring. I have ridden the bike three times since doing the mod over my usual trails and am very pleased. The changes are very good and I can hardly notice any difference between the modified drivetrain and the SRAM 1 X 11 I have on another bike. Having only ridden it a few times I can't comment on the durability.

The 16T sprocket replaces the 15T and 17T to even out the spacing on the cassette, rather than have a 15T - 19T jump if you just removed the 17T as most other 42T suppliers recommend.

The RAD cage modifies the XT rear mech to improve clearance with the 42T sprocket and avoids having to over tension the B screw (which causes stiffer changes), the b screw tension is about the same as it was with the 36T and unmodified cage.

The OneUP chainrings also come with spacers to adjust the chainline. So all in all a good solution which address all of the drivetrain issues when converting to 1 X 10.

bigmitch41

Great info! I am just considering gearing options and this thread is really useful. Im currently 2x10 so looking to go 1x10 with either a 40T rear and 34T front or 42T rear and 32T front. Most of my riding is here on the Isle of Man, its similar to the Lake District, im riding a Whyte T129-S and a fairly fit 44yr old, any feedback/advice is much appreciated.

Cheers Mitch

njee20

Slightly odd combination of choices?

A 34t chainring will be harder, but a 40t sprocket will be as well, so it makes more sense to either go 11-42 with a 34t ring, or 11-40 with a 32t ring.

Personal really though, there's no right answer. I'd always go for the wider cassette myself, but not tried any of the expanders, you'll obviously get some pretty big jumps.

paul.skibum

I have the 42t expander and the jump from 36 to 42 is notable but the 42t is there as my granny ring (effectively) so is the last resort spin it out gear. Sadly at the moment whilst trying to shed post winter lack of fitness I am using it far too much! But yeah, make sense to go with the widest range you can to me and play with the front ring to get it right.

bigmitch41

Thanks guys, ive gone for the 42t expander as you say its the granny ring, also gone for the 32t chainring up front, will experiment and change if needed..

bigmitch41

First ride last night and really happy with the gearing,the shifting is surprisingly smooth from 36t to 42t, had to use the longer b limit screw included with the e.thirteen expender sprocket when initially setting up, but so far so good!