Why are rollers tricky?
debeli
Posts: 583
This is in 'Road General' because it is not really about training regimes or techniques.
It is just a question that one of my kids asked me that I was unable adequately to answer.
I'd set my rollers up after a couple of years of good eating and making very little use of them.
I used to be 'good' on rollers, but my first try after the 2-year break was risible. Hopeless. Comic.
So... the younger boy (15 and quite a keen cyclist) asked why they were any harder than just going for a pootle down the road. I said a lot of 'Ummm...' and then referred him to his mother, who knows less than I do on these topics.
So... Why is it so hard to get started on rollers? Is it just perception that you are teetering a mile above a concrete floor, or is there some mechanical or physics-based reason why it can seem jolly difficult.
No science please, I have the mental and emotional age of a small child.
It is just a question that one of my kids asked me that I was unable adequately to answer.
I'd set my rollers up after a couple of years of good eating and making very little use of them.
I used to be 'good' on rollers, but my first try after the 2-year break was risible. Hopeless. Comic.
So... the younger boy (15 and quite a keen cyclist) asked why they were any harder than just going for a pootle down the road. I said a lot of 'Ummm...' and then referred him to his mother, who knows less than I do on these topics.
So... Why is it so hard to get started on rollers? Is it just perception that you are teetering a mile above a concrete floor, or is there some mechanical or physics-based reason why it can seem jolly difficult.
No science please, I have the mental and emotional age of a small child.
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Comments
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Rollers are tricky for the same reason that learning to ride a bike is tricky.0
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I don't find them all that tricky but I would say its part confidence and part the fact you are not moving forward.
The not moving forward bit is probably part physical and part mental, so links in with confidence maybe.
You never forget how to ride a bike, but riding a bike probably helps you to forget how to use rollers if you are out of practice.0 -
Dont make it hard for yourself at first. Have the supporting wall or worktop close by to get you going.
Focus on looking ahead not down.
Relax the hands.
If you do 'off' then tbh nothing much happens, 'cept a bit of noise for the curious.
Last week, being too clever reaching across to up the fan speed... not clever.
Can be a confidence thing as you are 'high up' but soon overcome.
The one handed.. no handed (cant do), water drinking, out of the saddle stuff comes with lots of practice.0 -
JGSI wrote:
The one handed.. no handed (cant do), water drinking, out of the saddle stuff comes with lots of practice.
I can't ride no-handed on rollers (rarely use them, is my excuse) - but my 10 year-old can....0 -
Oh the rollers themselves can be a difference...
I use Arions... flat as a pancake but large... makes things a bit flighty
Tacx rollers slope inwards I think.. so holding the front wheel a bit more stable.
Sportcrafters... small alu roller.. more feel... more hard work though... I think.
I can be spinning out on mine 53/12 at over a recorded 45mph with cadence about 115... thats about my max as well... but thats another thing to get practice in.0 -
To answer your question I think it's the fact that the only stable position on rollers are when the wheels are at 90 degrees to the rollers (laterally not vertically) and the back and front wheels are aligned - think about how you start off on a normal road surface, you compensate for the unstable position by slightly moving the bars until you are moving forward and have reach equilibrium. Doing the same thing on rollers makes the instability worse.0
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Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:To answer your question I think it's the fact that the only stable position on rollers are when the wheels are at 90 degrees to the rollers (laterally not vertically) and the back and front wheels are aligned - think about how you start off on a normal road surface, you compensate for the unstable position by slightly moving the bars until you are moving forward and have reach equilibrium. Doing the same thing on rollers makes the instability worse.
Aaaah. That makes sense even to me! Thank you.
I used to spend quite a while on rollers and was surprised to feel how wobbly/useless/unstable/nervous I was after a break.
What you say makes great sense and I think you've answered my (my son's) original question from my OP.
Please find enclosed two (fictional) tickets to the opera and a (fictional) voucher for a Hawaiian pizza.0 -
The harsh reality is that yours and my bike handling skills are so poor that we can't actually ride in a straight line
Basically when we re on the road we drift from side to side enough for a width that is wider than the rollers.
I keep trying to find some cheap so i can use them for a bit of bike skill trainingWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Debeli wrote:Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:To answer your question I think it's the fact that the only stable position on rollers are when the wheels are at 90 degrees to the rollers (laterally not vertically) and the back and front wheels are aligned - think about how you start off on a normal road surface, you compensate for the unstable position by slightly moving the bars until you are moving forward and have reach equilibrium. Doing the same thing on rollers makes the instability worse.
Aaaah. That makes sense even to me! Thank you.
I used to spend quite a while on rollers and was surprised to feel how wobbly/useless/unstable/nervous I was after a break.
What you say makes great sense and I think you've answered my (my son's) original question from my OP.
Please find enclosed two (fictional) tickets to the opera and a (fictional) voucher for a Hawaiian pizza.
I'm virtually looking forward to a great night out! 0 -
ddraver wrote:
I keep trying to find some cheap so i can use them for a bit of bike skill training
Make your own:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQM3_QKgt80 -
De Sisti wrote:I've these rollers and they're dead easy.
Yesss... and how much??? ;-)
try these
http://youtu.be/gOQM3_QKgt8
try the dead stop start on those!0 -
Perhaps (road) riding thru air at speed helps minimize side-to-side movements.
The air that surrounds a moving bike and rider is basically a low density fluid.
On rollers there is much less 'moving air', even when a large fan is used.
It would be interesting to know how riding rollers in a 'wind tunnel' feels - at say 20 mph wind velocity.
Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA0 -
joe2008 wrote:JGSI wrote:If you do 'off' then tbh nothing much happens, 'cept a bit of noise for the curious.
In Iowa State a few years back, a guy was riding rollers and had a towel draped over his handle bars. Towel got caught in his front wheel and it sent him flying through a glass table, he was killed.
But what killed him? Probably the glass cutting an artery.
He could have tripped over the cat and go through the table........0 -
Navrig2 wrote:joe2008 wrote:JGSI wrote:If you do 'off' then tbh nothing much happens, 'cept a bit of noise for the curious.
In Iowa State a few years back, a guy was riding rollers and had a towel draped over his handle bars. Towel got caught in his front wheel and it sent him flying through a glass table, he was killed.
But what killed him? Probably the glass cutting an artery.
He could have tripped over the cat and go through the table........
...but what if he didn't have a cat? I broke a rib falling of the rollers a while back, I fell on the handle bar.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Navrig2 wrote:joe2008 wrote:JGSI wrote:If you do 'off' then tbh nothing much happens, 'cept a bit of noise for the curious.
In Iowa State a few years back, a guy was riding rollers and had a towel draped over his handle bars. Towel got caught in his front wheel and it sent him flying through a glass table, he was killed.
But what killed him? Probably the glass cutting an artery.
He could have tripped over the cat and go through the table........
...but what if he didn't have a cat? I broke a rib falling of the rollers a while back, I fell on the handle bar.
Stupid place to keep a handlebar. Learn to ride no-hands and you wouldn't need a handlebar and wouldn't have broken a rib.
Simples.0 -
Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:To answer your question I think it's the fact that the only stable position on rollers are when the wheels are at 90 degrees to the rollers (laterally not vertically) and the back and front wheels are aligned - think about how you start off on a normal road surface, you compensate for the unstable position by slightly moving the bars until you are moving forward and have reach equilibrium. Doing the same thing on rollers makes the instability worse.
This makes the most sense. The gyroscopic forces from the wheels should be identical. On the road, it doesn't matter much if you change direction. This is different on rollers.ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Alright, they cost me £700, so what. Lots of people spend lots more on all manner of things when theyJGSI wrote:De Sisti wrote:I've these rollers and they're dead easy.
Yesss... and how much??? ;-)
try these
http://youtu.be/gOQM3_QKgt8
try the dead stop start on those!
could have bought cheaper items that'd "do what it says on the tin"; houses, cars, shoes, bikes, handbags,
etc etc.
Anyhow, nice rollers for £20.
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I think it comes down to the width, wobble by half a meter on the road and you can recover, on rollers you would be off. Being on rollers is like filtering through traffic with only a handlebars width between car doors.
I don't really find them so tricky, but surprisingly tiring after 90 mins or so, which I think is the need for constant attention.
Good for learning how to hold your line maybe.0 -
My best guess is that this is a centrifugal issue. Spin any wheel in your hand and tilt it left to right and you will feel a substantial force left or right.
On rollers when you are effectively stationary, this has to be compensated for by your arms and quick counteractions.
On the move it is primarily countered by forward momentum.Mud to Mudguards. The Art of framebuilding.
http://locksidebikes.co.uk/0 -
my experience from when I was learning was any correction in steering resulted in over correction. Throw in the fact that someone learning is likely to be going at a slowish speed and steering on rollers is more sensitive the slower you're going. This is similar to riding no handed, the slower you go the more twitchy the front end is.0
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I read recently that bikes don't stay upright due to any wheel gyroscopic effect, they stay upright the same way you can balance an upside down broom on the palm of your hand, by wobbling it incrementally, and unconsciously, from side to side. So we are always weaving very slightly, left a bit, steer to correct, right a bit, repeat x hundred or thousand times a minute. This is imperceptible in experienced, smooth riders, but is really noticeable in learners and some more experienced riders too. One the rollers nothing is different, only you have less lateral wiggle room for the left/right weave, and punishment is ever present, amplifying the anxiety and over-corrections, resulting in more and more weave, then boom.
Relax! Simple...0 -
Hi to you very interesting topic here I used to use turbo trainer alot and in the last 12 months I have gone to rollers. I would say for me they better for number of reasons.
1. you have to balance no messing otherwise you will come crashing off!! very time. I fell off a few times to start with. Its like learning to ski !!
2. you have to focus 200% of the time which means you are having to work harder at what you are doing.
3. the key to your balance is keep your legs straight ,and you can tell if you are doing this when the bike is spinning dead in the middle.If you start to slide your legs are not straight which is not a good sign.So focus keeping them straight.
4. Very good for your cadence and you will improve your spinning simply because you are having to balance.
5. The other good about the rollers is that all your body muscles are at work 100% ,you simply cannot relax.
6. I do 40 min sessions 26km average cadence 100 to 112. average speed 38 to 40 km
7. if you manager to pick up your water bottle with one hand on the bars you are doing well!!
If given the choice it will be rollers for me without question.Hope this helps 0 -
You think riding rollers is tricky on a bike? Try a unicycle...and 36er at that!
So I decided to get a bike roller and try it on a unicycle! I admit I was unsure about this since the slightest error could result in serious injury, especially since I was hitting near 20 mph on my 36er! Keeping the wheel straight and centered on the rollers is the biggest challenge, and since I have no fore/aft support like a bike, the chances of a bad fall are multiplied.
One thing is for sure. THIS IS EXHILARATING, and a great workout! (Scary as hell too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK7ymd79fZQ0
