Max 23mm tires on Giant Propel?

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  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    edited February 2015
    DKay wrote:

    I do find the increasing backlash against larger tyres pretty funny though.

    I found the near universal acceptance of the faster and comfier 25mm wonder tyres pretty funny in the first place, so will thoroughly enjoy any backlash.

    Of course people who so eagerly bought into 25mm tyres are not going to like any dispute of the theory.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    DKay wrote:

    Completely and utterly disagree. Having a bike which is torsionally stiff under power, but has a compliant ride is the most desirable combination of traits for a road bike.

    Why do Giant not fit 25mm tyres then if thats the Nirvana of road cycling?

    Would 28mm tyres affect how a bike reacts under power and in corners etc? 32mm? 35mm?.............
    Lowering pressures as the tyres get bigger of course.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,256
    I've come to the ironic conclusion recently that the best use for 25mm tyres is on narrow rims on bad British roads, as a poor substitute for wider rims and 23mm tyres...

    I moved from abroad recently and there's no doubt that a British roads are censored , you do need to run tyres at slightly lower pressures than you would on smoother European roads. Problem is that you risk pinch flats below 100 PSI with traditional narrow rims and 23mm tyres (especially on potholed roads..). With slightly wider rims you can run those same 23mm tyres at 90 PSI with no problems and they roll much better. No need for 25mm. But with narrow rims the only way to be able to lower the pressure without risking pinch flats is slight wider tyres. In both cases you are increasing the volume of air in the tyre, but wider tyres on narrow rims is a kludge.
  • DKayDKay Posts: 1,652
    Since when did 23mm tyres become harsh in themselves? Problem is, it has become apparent the Propel may have problems fitting 25mm tyres. So what? Don't buy the bloody thing then. There are plenty of other brands and bikes out there to choose from which are more compliant to 25mm tyres. I use 25mm tyres but even on my bike I have a task getting the rear wheel on and off. Giant built the bike this way, and if it cant take the tyre that the op wants then he has a choice. stick with 23mm or dont buy it. Its as simple as that. No one is saying you cant have a torsionally stiff bike with comfort but it has to be within the spec of the bike in the first place. if its not then tough.

    Where have I said that 23mm tyres 'become harsh in themselves'? As far as I can tell, I haven't. But fitting 25mm tyres and lowering pressures does ride better in my experience and also in the mojority of others. As for you saying that 'No one is saying you cant have a torsionally stiff bike with comfort', this is exactly what you and Carbonator have said with such gems as;
    What do you want to fit 25mm tyres for anyway? If its for extra comfort then the Propel is not the bike for you.
    Carbonator wrote:
    buying a bike that rides a bit stiff with the intension of fitting bigger tyres to make it more comfortable sounds even dafter.
    Theres nothing to 'put up with', just don't buy the bike
  • DKayDKay Posts: 1,652
    Carbonator wrote:
    DKay wrote:

    Completely and utterly disagree. Having a bike which is torsionally stiff under power, but has a compliant ride is the most desirable combination of traits for a road bike.

    Why do Giant not fit 25mm tyres then if thats the Nirvana of road cycling?

    Would 28mm tyres affect how a bike reacts under power and in corners etc? 32mm? 35mm?.............
    Lowering pressures as the tyres get bigger of course.

    Why do some bike manufacturers fit a smaller or larger cassette compared to others? Why do they fit a certain make of finishing components? A large part of it depends on what they can buy at the best price and has the best availability.

    I find your question about larger and larger tyres pretty obvious and I think you know it is too. Of course, if you fit huge tyres, then you're going to run into deminishing returns. But 25mm is a great compromise between extra comfort without reducing your speed.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    DKay wrote:

    Why do some bike manufacturers fit a smaller or larger cassette compared to others? Why do they fit a certain make of finishing components? A large part of it depends on what they can buy at the best price and has the best availability.

    I am not sure that would apply to tyre size. Brand/quality perhaps, but on a (I'm guessing) racy bike I feel the manufacturer would put the tyre size on they feel goes best with the bike.

    DKay wrote:
    I find your question about larger and larger tyres pretty obvious and I think you know it is too. Of course, if you fit huge tyres, then you're going to run into deminishing returns. But 25mm is a great compromise between extra comfort without reducing your speed.

    'Compromise' is the key word there. The Propel sounds like a bit of a no compromise frame/bike for which 25mm tyres will be a bit of a compromise.

    To me 25mm are not a magic wonder size. They may well offer a great mix of speed and comfort for a lot of people on a lot of bikes, but there comes a point where its just a bit silly IMO.

    I will never believe that the same tyre in 25mm at say 90psi is as fast as a 23mm/100psi one.
    Nothing wrong with wanting it for comfort but don't pretend that there is no performance difference between 23-25 with different pressures, but weirdly is between 25-28.

    I do not care how minimal the difference is either.

    If you wanted to run 23mm most of the time but wanted the option of 25mm for certain rides then fair enough, but if its to have full time 25mm then just get a different bike if its not designed for the bigger tyre.
  • DKayDKay Posts: 1,652
    Hey, agree to disagree. I feel we'll just go around in circles otherwise (25mm ones in my case). :wink:

    *edit* This just in:

    http://youtu.be/EAq979WV1c4?list=PLUdAM ... T7vS0Fu9ux
  • Dragging this thread back up.

    My 2016 advance pro 0 needs new tyres thanks to british 'chipping' road resurfacing.

    Hoping i can upgrade from the standard GP1 giant tyres although they do get good reviews.

    Currently looking at the Vittoria Corsa G+ Road Tyre

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitt ... graphene16

    Seems like the best package / all rounder out there just now with some mighty impressive claims ! claims . . .

    having a read of this thread and others seems the verdict is still out on 23 or 25 but does 25 fit the new propel ? I know it comes with 23 and the rim width of the SLR1 carbon rims fitted is 23mm according to the giant website

    i'm unsure what to go for, i dont find the propel uncomfy sometimes its harsh but i kinda like it :)

    Did anyone ever prove that 25mm was faster anyway ? will post a seperate thread on feedback on the corsa + soon
  • it will get you better speed and less comfort
  • geoffh73geoffh73 Posts: 81
    Dragging this thread back up.

    My 2016 advance pro 0 needs new tyres thanks to british 'chipping' road resurfacing.

    Hoping i can upgrade from the standard GP1 giant tyres although they do get good reviews.

    Currently looking at the Vittoria Corsa G+ Road Tyre

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitt ... graphene16

    Seems like the best package / all rounder out there just now with some mighty impressive claims ! claims . . .

    having a read of this thread and others seems the verdict is still out on 23 or 25 but does 25 fit the new propel ? I know it comes with 23 and the rim width of the SLR1 carbon rims fitted is 23mm according to the giant website

    i'm unsure what to go for, i dont find the propel uncomfy sometimes its harsh but i kinda like it :)

    Did anyone ever prove that 25mm was faster anyway ? will post a seperate thread on feedback on the corsa + soon

    i have the advanced 0 and run 26mm specialized tyres on fulcrum quattro lg with no problems.
    Dolan Rebus
    Giant TCR Advanced SL
  • mason5697mason5697 Posts: 63
    I have the Propel advanced pro 2. And I'm running 25mm Conti Gatorskins without a problem... I didn't dislike the 23's. But I had the 25's on my hybrid and swapped them over to the Propel for puncture protection for a few longer rides
  • Many thanks for the replies, by chance I called into a friends shop today and tried his wheels in my bike.

    He was running 25c Vittoria Corsa G+ and they fit without any issues.
  • izzaizza Posts: 1,561
    I've had 3 Propel's.

    1) Used 23/24/25 mm tyres with no problem both with Fouriers and Giant brakes. However, it is still a bit of trial and error as it depends on the wheels and the rim wdth. My frame was a 58 - shouldn't affect things but state it for information only.

    2) It was one of the most comfortable rides out. Anyone who goes "Its an aero bike it won't be comfortable" has never ridden one. Check out Kurt Searvogel images and you'll see that he used one with TT bars as part of his longest distance in a year record. Sponsored or not, he's not going to ride a boneshaker as part of that effort!

    3) I never noticed any change in comfort with any othe tyre size changes.
  • izza wrote:
    I've had 3 Propel's.

    1) Used 23/24/25 mm tyres with no problem both with Fouriers and Giant brakes. However, it is still a bit of trial and error as it depends on the wheels and the rim wdth. My frame was a 58 - shouldn't affect things but state it for information only.

    2) It was one of the most comfortable rides out. Anyone who goes "Its an aero bike it won't be comfortable" has never ridden one. Check out Kurt Searvogel images and you'll see that he used one with TT bars as part of his longest distance in a year record. Sponsored or not, he's not going to ride a boneshaker as part of that effort!

    3) I never noticed any change in comfort with any othe tyre size changes.

    cheers for the reply, I agree it doesn't seem an uncanny bike and to be honest i don't have much to compare it with

    the SLR1 aero wheels carbon - have a rim width of 23mm so think i am going to stick with 23's
  • SemantikSemantik Posts: 537
    Looking at this video (@ 0.49 seconds) of a standard Propel Advanced 2 2016 it looks like some 25's would fit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq6OfNPviFo

    Would be nice if they did, as I'm getting one next week.

    But no tears from me if they don't.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    Tyres of different brands and models come at different widths and height. The depth of the rim hook makes a difference as does the rim width. no general advise can be given here as it depends on the tyre rim combo. For example in my old Sannino I cannot fit a 23mm conti GP4000sII tyre on my wide rims as they foul the seat tube but a 23mm IRC tubeless tyre fits fine as does a specialised 23mm clincher (I forget which one) as does a 23mm vittoria corsa CX3. If clearance is an issue don't fit a conti tyre they are wide and tall.

    Also wider tyres are not slower the aero disadvantage is minor compared to the comfort advantage. Vibration fatigues you and the drag difference is ~5secs over a 40km TT i.e tiny compared to other factors. So overall your quicker with wider tyres than with narrow ones.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,256
    Also wider tyres are not slower the aero disadvantage is minor compared to the comfort advantage. Vibration fatigues you and the drag difference is ~5secs over a 40km TT i.e tiny compared to other factors. So overall your quicker with wider tyres than with narrow ones.
    Surely it always depends on secondary factors - different wheels will be more or less aero with different width tyres. Some very wide rims will be more aero with 25mm tyres than 23mm ones, while narrower ones will be more aero with 23mm tyres (and of course in practice tyres labelled 23mm and 25mm overlap in actual width anyway). And the advantage from preventing fatiguing vibrations will depend on the road surface. On smoother roads 23mm will be faster.

    The optimal width for a road tyre (for speed) is quite a small range in any case - something between 20 and 30mm. What precise width within that range is optimal always depends on other factors, there is no universal answer. It's like asking what the ideal saddle height is (73.5 cm since you asked.. :D )
  • Fitted 25c Vittoria Corsa G+ no issues 2016 propel advanced pro
  • Semantik wrote:
    Looking at this video (@ 0.49 seconds) of a standard Propel Advanced 2 2016 it looks like some 25's would fit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq6OfNPviFo

    Would be nice if they did, as I'm getting one next week.

    But no tears from me if they don't.

    2016 are fitted with 23s, I just got the 2017 and it came with 23 too. Aftet visual inspection i beleive 25 would fit fine
  • I've a video here of 25 tyres on a Giant Propel
    https://youtu.be/KdRRwBP7lPM
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