11 speed shifter with 10 speed rear mech

jamy99

Evening all, as the title suggests, will an ultegra 6700 10 speed rear mech work with 11 speed dura ace shifters and cassette?

Many thanks

Jamie

mitchgixer6

Won't work I'm afraid. The 11s levers have a different cable pull ratio so your shifts would be off.

jamy99

Thanks for your reply

So it's not the shifter that controls the pull and release of cable. The rear mech controls the pull ratio instead?

keef66

I was thinking the opposite. The shifter determines how much cable is pulled per click, the rear mech just does as it's told.

My guess is it would work. (assuming 11 speed shifters, chain and cassette)

keezx

The amount of movement is determined by shifter AND derailleur together.
If you change 1 of those the shifting is off....

jamy99

OK thanks for your replies

I think I might try it first with the 10 speed mech. If its no good, then I'll have to get a new mech as well

wotnoshoeseh

Keezx wrote:

The amount of movement is determined by shifter AND derailleur together.
If you change 1 of those the shifting is off....

How??

My understanding:-
Derailleur pulls cable the requisite amount to facilitate the shift from one cog to another - in this case for 11 speed shifter, it will "shorten" the cable to inwardly move the derailleur the required amount. I'm assuming that for the rear derailleur, the amount of lateral shift is identical irrespective of whether it is an Ultegra 6700 or 6800 derailleur, so long as it is Shimano.

I mean how many times have we seen next model up rear derailleur fitted i.e. Ultegra RD on mainly 105 set up..
or in my case, Sora fitted with 2300 shifters.

Am I missing something?

keezx

As long as the geometry stays identical. the shifter determines the pitch.
If you do not understand that the derailleur is just as important then the shifter, read this:
http://www.highpath.net/highpath/cycles/info/rear.html

andy_wrx

The shifter and derailleur combination together determines the pitch.

The actuation ratio (sometimes called pull-ratio) is how much sideways movement you get for how much pull of the cable.

Apart from early 7400 DA, all Shimano 8-9-10sp systems use the same actuation ratio, so any Shimano 8-9-10sp rear mech will work correctly with any 8-9-10sp shifter and cassette
(ie shifter and cassette are the same, both 8 or 9 or 10, but rear mech can be any of them)

Is 11sp actuation ratio different ?
It would seem so : http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/02/ ... ity_316828

mitchgixer6

jamy99 wrote:

OK thanks for your replies

I think I might try it first with the 10 speed mech. If its no good, then I'll have to get a new mech as well

Did your try this? Did it work?

ugo.santalucia

wotnoshoeseh wrote:

Keezx wrote:

The amount of movement is determined by shifter AND derailleur together.
If you change 1 of those the shifting is off....

How??

My understanding:-
Derailleur pulls cable the requisite amount to facilitate the shift from one cog to another - in this case for 11 speed shifter, it will "shorten" the cable to inwardly move the derailleur the required amount. I'm assuming that for the rear derailleur, the amount of lateral shift is identical irrespective of whether it is an Ultegra 6700 or 6800 derailleur, so long as it is Shimano.

I mean how many times have we seen next model up rear derailleur fitted i.e. Ultegra RD on mainly 105 set up..
or in my case, Sora fitted with 2300 shifters.

Am I missing something?

Read this

http://whosatthewheel.com/2015/01/29/th ... witchover/

danontheiom

Interesting subject. Especially if you run a ten speed mountain bike but have a spare nine speed cassette previously purchased. Will the nine speed cassette work with ten speed shifters? :?

caracolito

I had the same issue...
5800 shifter (105 11spd) with a 5701 mech (105 10spd)... didn't work.
it just skipped somewhere in the middle.
couldn't index for my life!
There's slightly different ratios of movement in the shifter, to compensate for the different movements the mech makes.
Put on the 5800 mech... and all is well.

Shimano did some dark magic changes in the new 11spd shifters... no longer backwards compatible.
Boooooo!

Manc33

The fact that an 11sp freehub body is wider (and if using a 10sp cassette on these it needs a spacer) gives it away.

That means the mech will need more travel on 11sp, albeit just 1mm or whatever but thats enough to throw all the indexing out.

caracolito

Manc33 wrote:

The fact that an 11sp freehub body is wider (and if using a 10sp cassette on these it needs a spacer) gives it away.

That means the mech will need more travel on 11sp, albeit just 1mm or whatever but thats enough to throw all the indexing out.

That is not always the case... Mavic wheels come with a shim... once removed - you can use the same hub. That's what I did.

The 10spd mech can often handle the range of movement, as in my case. Indexing was an issue only mid-range. It's the non-linear fashion of the "clicks-sizes" that's the problem

DKay

caracolito wrote:

I had the same issue...
5800 shifter (105 11spd) with a 5701 mech (105 10spd)... didn't work.
it just skipped somewhere in the middle.
couldn't index for my life!
There's slightly different ratios of movement in the shifter, to compensate for the different movements the mech makes.
Put on the 5800 mech... and all is well.

Shimano did some dark magic changes in the new 11spd shifters... no longer backwards compatible.
Boooooo!

Shimanos 11speed rear mechs have a different geometry to old 10 speed.