Buses letting out right-turning traffic...?

KnightOfTheLongTights

That is, stopping to let out a car from a side-street on the left that is trying turning right, i.e., across the front of the bus, and potentially another lane of traffic.
This strikes me as incredibly dangerous - isn't it in some way forbidden or at least frowned upon?
There's a bus lane and a car lane along the length of Twickenham High St / Heath Rd, and as the bus in front of me had stopped the other morning, with seemingly nothing in front of it, I assumed it was a bus-stop and went to overtake - as you would.
But he's letting someone from a side-street turn right - a car that was completely unsighted as to what might be coming down the 'car lane' the other side of the bus.
Even where there isn't two lanes, this strikes me as something that should be contra the HC.

elbowloh

It's fine, but the driver coming out of the side street and turning right needs to check that the other lane is clear as well before entering it.

KnightOfTheLongTights

elbowloh wrote:

It's fine, but the driver coming out of the side street and turning right needs to check that the other lane is clear as well before entering it.

How do they do that with a bus in the way? There is the small matter of a bonnet that sticks out before the driver is anywhere near seeing the other lane.

elbowloh

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

It's fine, but the driver coming out of the side street and turning right needs to check that the other lane is clear as well before entering it.

How do they do that with a bus in the way? There is the small matter of a bonnet that sticks out before the driver is anywhere near seeing the other lane.

By edging out very, very slowly.

Its not something that will ever be banned. Just something cyclists and every other road user just has to manage.

Particularly in queuing traffic, its the right thing to do, to not block the turning and let other cars out of side streets. As a cyclist or driver, if you see a bus stopped, you have to take into account that something may be pulling out of a side street.

KnightOfTheLongTights

elbowloh wrote:

Its not something that will ever be banned. Just something cyclists and every other road user just has to manage.

It's not quite so dangerous for 'other road users' though is it?
Who are you, J Clarkson?

KnightOfTheLongTights

elbowloh wrote:

Particularly in queuing traffic, its the right thing to do, to not block the turning and let other cars out of side streets. As a cyclist or driver, if you see a bus stopped, you have to take into account that something may be pulling out of a side street.

Quite hilarious that you have managed to make an argument out of this.
Stick to the facts: it was NOT queueing traffic and it is NOT up to buses to give way to cars in that situation by any reading - the bus had right of way and should have kept going.
It was an unnecessary and dangerous thing to do, and you are defending cos you fancy a bit of an argument.

veronese68

elbowloh wrote:

It's fine, but the driver coming out of the side street and turning right needs to check that the other lane is clear as well before entering it.

I think this is the case, but obviously the driver has to check the second lane is clear and not just pull out round the bus. You'd like to think the bus driver would know better than to let someone out if something is coming down the road. Unfortunately that may be asking too much of some of their tiny minds.
That stretch of road is pretty nasty for people pulling out from either side and blind podestrians stepping off the pavement, or even running off the pavement, without looking.

elbowloh

Not sure where I'm making an argument of this, just saying that I don't think its something that's against the highway code. :roll:

daddy0

I believe that you're not actually meant to let traffic out of side roads. You're certainly not meant to signal for them to go as the other driver might take this as a sign that the coast is clear, when it might not be, which *could* cause an accident that would then be your fault? If there is heavy traffic then you're meant to leave space to let other road users in and out of side roads, but again, you're not meant to wave for other road users to proceed. Or am I wrong?

elbowloh

This is the rule for the car coming out of the side road, can't find one yet about the bus driver stopping, although this rule is about coming out of a junction through traffic:

Motorcyclists and cyclists

211

It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic.

Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think.

When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing.

Be especially careful when turning and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.

Rule 211 Look out for motor-cyclists and cyclists at junctions

KnightOfTheLongTights

elbowloh wrote:

Not sure where I'm making an argument of this, just saying that I don't think its something that's against the highway code. :roll:

ah but you're not just saying that - you're saying 'oh don't be silly, the status quo is fine, no need to make a fuss'.
Well that's the sort of attitude that excuses lots of other inadequacies in the traffic system / driving rules that are responsible for a lot of injuries and fatalities to cyclists.
Yes, under the current circumstances, it is cyclists who have to look after themselves in the face of a myriad faults in the UK road / traffic system.
I am saying this is one of the dangers that could be pretty easily reduced by making it A Bad Thing To Do.

KnightOfTheLongTights

at least for buses and other large vehicles.

craker

There's case law where vehicles have been let into and across queueing traffic, if a bike (or motorbike) is filtering down the middle then the cyclist is expected to be wary of traffic joining that may not have a full view of the lane it is trying to join. If the motorist joining takes reasonable care when joining the traffic then blame could be split or absolved.

Happened to me a while back, lorry in lane 2 stopped to let in a car from the right, the car wanted to cross into lane 1 and stuck his bonnet in my path (very slowly). I was filtering down the middle and couldn't stop in time. The net result was a light collision and a ripped sock; doing some research afterwards I'm fairly sure my fault was as great as the driver's and it's made me cautious about filtering especially when I know there's a junction to one side or another.

elbowloh

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

Not sure where I'm making an argument of this, just saying that I don't think its something that's against the highway code. :roll:

ah but you're not just saying that - you're saying 'oh don't be silly, the status quo is fine, no need to make a fuss'.
Well that's the sort of attitude that excuses lots of other inadequacies in the traffic system / driving rules that are responsible for a lot of injuries and fatalities to cyclists.
Yes, under the current circumstances, it is cyclists who have to look after themselves in the face of a myriad faults in the UK road / traffic system.
I am saying this is one of the dangers that could be pretty easily reduced by making it A Bad Thing To Do.

Even if i was doing that, what's the problem? I'm just disagreeing with you that is all. I wasn't being argumentative and didn't resort to name calling, for example.
This is a forum isn't it?

cookeeemonster

When I did a motorbike bikesafe type course a couple of years back the policeman who was doing it said never indicate to a driver coming out of a side road that it's ok to proceed unless you've checked yourself it is safe - otherwise you are responsible for any accidents that occur as a result.

So maybe in this case the bus driver was at fault? Thats the way I see it.

Obviously we still need to be aware of the danger of the above but we shouldn't really be put in that position in the first place (main road traffic should never stop and give way to side road traffic unless queueing)

kurako

I'm pretty sure the Highway Code says not to block junctions when queueing in traffic. People who do this are just selfish f*cktards. As someone who lives next to a busy road I quite often find myself trying to pull out but can't because some mong has stopped right in front of the junction. In this case it sounds like the bus driver was trying to be considerate. I certainly wouldn't blame him because some chump has decided to drive straight out without checking it is safe. The responsibility is always with the driver of the vehicle not to hit stuff although some seem to think if they get a wave or a flash it is safe to do whatever....

[Edit] but in your case the bus has stopped for no apparent reason? Yeah then he is a bell-end!!![\Edit]

KnightOfTheLongTights

CookeeeMonster wrote:

So maybe in this case the bus driver was at fault? Thats the way I see it.

Obviously we still need to be aware of the danger of the above but we shouldn't really be put in that position in the first place (main road traffic should never stop and give way to side road traffic unless queueing)

Exactly.
If cyclists are queuing up to defend dodgy traffic laws no wonder we're in the state we're in.

cookeeemonster

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

CookeeeMonster wrote:

So maybe in this case the bus driver was at fault? Thats the way I see it.

Obviously we still need to be aware of the danger of the above but we shouldn't really be put in that position in the first place (main road traffic should never stop and give way to side road traffic unless queueing)

Exactly.
If cyclists are queuing up to defend dodgy traffic laws no wonder we're in the state we're in.

Someone stopped to let another car drive across my path today while I was in a bus lane. Thankfully I have discs else I may have ended up over his bonnet. Pretty unexpected and there's only so much defensive riding you can do...

KnightOfTheLongTights

CookeeeMonster wrote:

Someone stopped to let another car drive across my path today while I was in a bus lane. Thankfully I have discs else I may have ended up over his bonnet. Pretty unexpected and there's only so much defensive riding you can do...

I think it's a problem that has become worse as there's so many more large vehicles on the roads, over the last 10 years or so especially: more vans and trucks; more SUVs and 4x4s; and in London at least a lot more buses.
Obv. all makes visibility and safety worse for cyclists and mopeds / scooters / m'bikes.

desweller

Whether it breaks the law or not is almost a moot point. Even if the road traffic act laid it out in totally unambiguous terms as you describe does not preclude the situation occurring as people are not perfect.

If you can't see beyond a stopped vehicle then you must assume that a vehicle or pedestrian could emerge and adjust your speed and road position accordingly.

elbowloh

The thing is, people let other people out of side roads as a matter of courtesy, they are trying to be nice, to do the right thing and I don't think you could ban it. I now of many side roads that I use in rush hour and you simply would not get out of them if other cars didn't let you out.

I think it's just up to all involved to ensure that it's clear before proceeding and being aware of what could be coming round the corner.

On_What

Something I always try and watch out for having been caught out in the past. Usually the best trick to avoid going over a bonnet is to assume that something will pull out on you at any point. Even traffic coming from the opposite lane turning right. When filtering take real care and don't assume anything.