Labour's policy to cut Tuition Fees

southdownswolf

So the parents bought their council home in MT for bu**er all, it worth a little more than bu**er all now. The kids go to university then decide to live in Croydon (not exactly a step up...) and moan because it is too expensive to live near London? Well more fool them, they should have stayed in MT where it was nice and cheap.

RDW

Is there a thought that back in the day you left home and immediately bought a semi using your pocket money?

Don't be silly. Only kids with rich parents get to do this. Most people rented, saved up for a deposit, and bought a house when their income supported it. It's just that now the rental period may last indefinitely.

The kids go to university then decide to live in Croydon (not exactly a step up...) and moan because it is too expensive to live near London?

The hypothetical kids aren't moaning, they're just getting on with it, as people do. They picked Croydon because they can at least commute to somewhere where there actually are graduate jobs. And for the scenery, obviously.

Well more fool them, they should have stayed in MT where it was nice and cheap.

Yes, they should really know their place, shouldn't they? Of course one advantage of living in an area like this is they probably won't be earning enough to start paying off those tuition fees any time soon. Though that software engineering degree may have limited application working in the Co-op in Pentrebach.

All this is somewhat beside the point, of course. It's just that at the very time that it's become more difficult for kids to do things that their parents took for granted (like getting a foot on the housing ladder), we've decided to hit the young with a mortgage on their education. Why aren't all those middle-aged graduate voters who got free education being asked to share the burden through taxation? Oh, wait...

mr_goo

RideOnTime wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

The policy starts from the position that the government would fill the approx £3000 per student shortfall (nearly everyone charges the full £9000 now) from government coffers. The VCs are questioning whether this is viable in the current context and suspect that such funding as is provided will be eaten way over the years so Universities will have to address that funding gap, most likely by cutting course costs (leading to increased student-staff ratios, fewer resources, etc).

I think they need to cut course costs. How could a student doing an Arts degree, and by arts I mean a BA not actually 'Art' or 'Fine Art' etc, for £9000 a year be value for money? I would imagine many arts students have less than 12 contact hours per week. Most lectures would be given to full lecture theatres, 100+ and tuturials done by very junior staff or PHD students. I think Universities need to get real and start offering vslue for money. You could deliver a first year degree course easily fro £3000 in my view. Ok fine, Sciences cost more, medicine might cost over £12k, I get that... but come on.... this is terrible value for money...

Ride on Time. I would like to point out the following, as the father of a BA graduate in illustration. The British Creative Arts Industry is the best in the world. Along with the Universities in the UK that teach the various disciplines in the industry. So when you slate an Arts degree as being worthless think of the following:
Who- Directed and Produced the latest blockbuster film from Hollywood... they would have gone to university
Who- Designed and Made the costumes for the blockbuster film.... most likely a graduate from university
Who- Produced the CGI for the blockbuster eg; Gravity... graduates from university... and actually some of the CGI for Gravity was produced at The Arts University Bournemouth which is my daughters Alma Mata
Who- Did all the concept artwork for the blockbuster..... a graduate from university
Who- Made all the models for the blockbuster..... a graduate from university.

The UK film industry is thriving. Many of those that work behind the camera are graduates of Art related degrees.

Graduates who gain a BA in an Art discipline work just as hard as any other student. I have witnessed it first hand. Nearly all without exception leave knowing that they will be self employed and have to take on part time work at the start of their working life in order to support themselves before they gain a foothold in their chosen field. Many are expected to work for free as other industries like publishing like to take advantage of artists/illustrators.

I will vehemently defend the Creative Arts of the UK.

Below is an example of the illustration work that my daughter creates. She is freelance, starting out in the working world like thousands of others every year. So anyone out there in Bikeradar land that needs a book or magazine illustrated please feel free to get in touch.

metronome

Fabulous illustration.

I did a BA Hons, Multimedia Arts. Graduated in 04 and now run my own animation company.

To give you an idea of how the course and class of 30 people was structured -

Monday AM - Lecture theatre (entire art school - H.O.A, Graphic Design, Fine Art, Illustration, Fashion, etc)
Monday PM - 1hr seminar with Prof

That Monday was the Hons part of the course.

Tuesday to Friday, our class of 30 was split in to 2 groups. 1 group had the morning session with our 2 or 3 tutors, whilst the other half worked. and then it swapped over in the afternoon.

It was an intensive course and full time attendance was required. It was people I knew studying for BSCs, languages and English etc, who were only required to attend a few lectures per week. In comparison I feel I got great value for money.

mr_goo

metronome wrote:

Fabulous illustration.

I did a BA Hons, Multimedia Arts. Graduated in 04 and now run my own animation company.

To give you an idea of how the course and class of 30 people was structured -

Monday AM - Lecture theatre (entire art school - H.O.A, Graphic Design, Fine Art, Illustration, Fashion, etc)
Monday PM - 1hr seminar with Prof

That Monday was the Hons part of the course.

Tuesday to Friday, our class of 30 was split in to 2 groups. 1 group had the morning session with our 2 or 3 tutors, whilst the other half worked. and then it swapped over in the afternoon.

It was an intensive course and full time attendance was required. It was people I knew studying for BSCs, languages and English etc, who were only required to attend a few lectures per week. In comparison I feel I got great value for money.

Ta very much. Its part of a series of illustrations of the Planets, where each illustration incorporates natural elements ie herbs/plants plus many other characteristics of the planetary God from Roman times. The strange looking implement with pointy bits is inspired from Leonardo da Vinci's series of drawings on sceptres. She is also working on an animation for a music DVD, FREE of Charge as seems to be the norm for Arts graduates.

My daughter had to do a foundation year at AUB, as the competition for places on Arts courses is high. Then 3 years to achieve a BA Hons. She was in Uni nearly every day of the 4 years attending lectures, workshops, seminars, group activities and tutorials.
Whereas my son is doing an MMath and sends me texts from the uni gym in the middle of the afternoon and only attends lectures for about 2/3s of the week tops. Lots of work on own initiative though.

pblakeney

RDW wrote:

Why aren't all those middle-aged graduate voters who got free education being asked to share the burden through taxation? Oh, wait...

Getting back on topic and we agree 100%.

RideOnTime

Mr Goo wrote:

RideOnTime wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

The policy starts from the position that the government would fill the approx £3000 per student shortfall (nearly everyone charges the full £9000 now) from government coffers. The VCs are questioning whether this is viable in the current context and suspect that such funding as is provided will be eaten way over the years so Universities will have to address that funding gap, most likely by cutting course costs (leading to increased student-staff ratios, fewer resources, etc).

I think they need to cut course costs. How could a student doing an Arts degree, and by arts I mean a BA not actually 'Art' or 'Fine Art' etc, for £9000 a year be value for money? I would imagine many arts students have less than 12 contact hours per week. Most lectures would be given to full lecture theatres, 100+ and tuturials done by very junior staff or PHD students. I think Universities need to get real and start offering vslue for money. You could deliver a first year degree course easily fro £3000 in my view. Ok fine, Sciences cost more, medicine might cost over £12k, I get that... but come on.... this is terrible value for money...

Ride on Time. I would like to point out the following, as the father of a BA graduate in illustration. The British Creative Arts Industry is the best in the world. Along with the Universities in the UK that teach the various disciplines in the industry. So when you slate an Arts degree as being worthless think of the following:
Who- Directed and Produced the latest blockbuster film from Hollywood... they would have gone to university
Who- Designed and Made the costumes for the blockbuster film.... most likely a graduate from university
Who- Produced the CGI for the blockbuster eg; Gravity... graduates from university... and actually some of the CGI for Gravity was produced at The Arts University Bournemouth which is my daughters Alma Mata
Who- Did all the concept artwork for the blockbuster..... a graduate from university
Who- Made all the models for the blockbuster..... a graduate from university.

The UK film industry is thriving. Many of those that work behind the camera are graduates of Art related degrees.

Graduates who gain a BA in an Art discipline work just as hard as any other student. I have witnessed it first hand. Nearly all without exception leave knowing that they will be self employed and have to take on part time work at the start of their working life in order to support themselves before they gain a foothold in their chosen field. Many are expected to work for free as other industries like publishing like to take advantage of artists/illustrators.

I will vehemently defend the Creative Arts of the UK.

Below is an example of the illustration work that my daughter creates. She is freelance, starting out in the working world like thousands of others every year. So anyone out there in Bikeradar land that needs a book or magazine illustrated please feel free to get in touch.

No I do agree.

Science can keep us alive.
Art makes there a point to living.