Record Hubs

staffo

I've recently built up a Dolan Multi-X and used the wheels from my winter bike which are Archetype rims on Record hubs with CX tyres. Everything is fine but should I be concerned using cup and cone rather than cartridge hubs in muddy conditions? Would I be better off saving those wheels for my winter bike and getting a set of wheels with Miche Primato or Novatec 171/172 for CX?

ugo.santalucia

Mud as such is not a big problem for bearings as the seals are tight enough to prevent splashes of mud from getting inside. However, if you leave your bike wet and dirty in the shed in winter, that becomes a problem as condensation builds up inside the hub in cold temperatures.

Service frequently

staffo

Thanks Ugo. Is that an issue just for cup and cone hubs or are cartridge hubs similarly affected?

tgotb

I'd say it's an issue for any type of bearing, and it's not just condensation; I've yet to come across a set of bearing seals that will consistently keep all the water out in really wet/muddy conditions, and if you use a pressure washer you're pretty much guaranteed to get water inside every bearing.

Service frequently, and consider packing as much grease as you possibly can into the bearings; it'll marginally increase the rolling resistance, but will make it quite a lot harder for the water to get in.

Cup and cone bearings will actually be much easier to clean and service properly; the only issue is that if you do trash them (generally happens through neglect) there's no way to replace the bearing races, so you're stuck with pitted races for the rest of the life of the wheel. Conversely, it's probably impossible to do a perfect job of cleaning a cartridge bearing, but when they get trashed you can replace them and the wheel is as good as new.

I experimented with expensive stainless bearings a while ago, but they didn't seem to last significantly longer; now I just use cheap ones and keep a stock of spares.

ugo.santalucia

TGOTB wrote:

I experimented with expensive stainless bearings a while ago, but they didn't seem to last significantly longer; now I just use cheap ones and keep a stock of spares.

That's because the killer is generally not rust but fast wear rate, genrally due to poor tolerances, problematic installation or too much vertical load for the bearing size or too much lateral preload. When I replace cartridges I very rarely find rust, yet they are worn or even seized

tgotb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

That's because the killer is generally not rust but fast wear rate, genrally due to poor tolerances, problematic installation or too much vertical load for the bearing size or too much lateral preload. When I replace cartridges I very rarely find rust, yet they are worn or even seized

If that's the case, why do you identify condensation as a problem?

I have a box full of dead cartridge bearings (unless they're totally destroyed I keep them as emergency spares); whilst I don't have the equipment or expertise to diagnose the precise cause of death, they're all showing a combination of water/mud ingress and corrosion. Aswell as stainless bearings I've also tried various different manufacturers, and concluded that in this particular environment higher-quality (eg SKF) bearings last no longer than budget bearings at a quarter of the price; the only things that make a tangible difference are fitting them properly, and removing the bearing seals and squeezing in as much grease as possible. This may not be the case on a road bike, but on a CX bike the only important thing seems to be keeping the mud/water out.

Worst of the lot, by far are my jockey wheel bearings (SRAM in my case, I haven't tried any others). If it's muddy, those get washed out under the tap after literally every ride.

The one thing I haven't tried is ceramic bearings. Research (and Enduro's marketing spiel) suggests that they may be a lot more robust in a CX environment, particularly in something like a BB30 bottom bracket, but the eye-watering price has put me off that particular experiment.

ugo.santalucia

TGOTB wrote:

If that's the case, why do you identify condensation as a problem?

It is for cup and cone like record.

I also have a box of dead bearings that I use as guides to fit new ones. Only a minority are rusted, others are worn or "crunch seized" the latter typically due to over tightening preload caps or hammering them too hard into the housing against the axle lip.