Fox float ctd v cane creek db air cs

divingmoose
divingmoose Posts: 540
edited January 2015 in MTB buying advice
Hi guys I am in the process of putting an order in for a santcruz 5010 and just wondered on which shock to go for from the above. Thoughts please.
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Comments

  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    On a 5010 I'd choose a Cane Creek Inline, thats what I have on mine.
  • divingmoose
    divingmoose Posts: 540
    Did it make a huge difference mate
  • paul.skibum
    paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    To my way of thinking the CTD system is flawed design. I would sacrifice other components and get the best shock you can which from what I have read would be the CC. I switched from a CTD (albeit an Evo series base level) on my Bronson to a Monarch and it was night and day.
    Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.
  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    divingmoose wrote:
    Did it make a huge difference mate

    It all depends what you want. I am a serial bike switcher, I can chop and change this shock between bikes (or sell it if it does not fit) and anyone can dial it into there bike. Is it as good as a custom tune on a CTD? Im not sure. Push have a hell of a lot of experience in tuning shocks, its not just a shim stack change, its a new piston too. I think if you can tell TF tuned what you want from a shock that the standard one is not exactly doing then they can get it bang on. Probably more so than the end user could with a Cane Creek.
  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    paul.skibum wrote:
    To my way of thinking the CTD system is flawed design. I would sacrifice other components and get the best shock you can which from what I have read would be the CC. I switched from a CTD (albeit an Evo series base level) on my Bronson to a Monarch and it was night and day.

    Paul, did you not have the Evolution series fox stuff? The rear shock is terrible, the worst I have seen in recent production years. Cracked shims are common on them due to the way they stack the shims. I rebuilt one that was like a pogo stick, it had cracked 2 shims and had no rebound control at all.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    The DB Air CS is a big shock for a little bike. It started life as a DH air shock & has since been adapted to shorter lengths.

    Mine, and everyone I know who has used one has struggled to get the 'dead' feeling tuned out of it, even with all the options. That kind of feel is fine on a DH bike, but on a shorter travel bike it felt like it was always working against the suspension & could never get it feeling lively.

    The Inline does address that, it's a lot more lively. Sadly it's also a lot more unreliable too. Lots of reports of them going pop, and my own experience again is mine went pop after 2 weeks & dumped all of its oil out of the adjusters. If it works though & you arn't too heavy/leverage ratio too high, then it's a good choice.

    I'm using a Float X, which for someone who dislikes Fox Shocks generally, is great :)
  • poah
    poah Posts: 3,369
    no comparison get the cane creek.
    CCDB IL coil CS first impressions

    MTB Scotland youtube channel
  • Angus Young
    Angus Young Posts: 3,063
    I've got a PUSHed Fox Float X on the back of my Process and it's wonderful. Feels like the back of the bike is glued to the trail.
    All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
    Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12994607
  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    I did have a Pushed Float X on my Bronson and it was great, I'd definitely consider another one. I believe we might well see new shocks from Fox for 2016.
  • poah
    poah Posts: 3,369
    marzocchi have an interesting looking shock

    http://www.marzocchi.com/template/detai ... etto=20549
    CCDB IL coil CS first impressions

    MTB Scotland youtube channel
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    Cane Creek is in a different league to any other air shock, even the Float X doesn't come close. The only thing to consider with the CCDB air is that it has a limited range of rebound damping. If you're over about 15 stone (depending on your bikes linkage) it may not have enough rebound damping.
    Not sure about the Marzocchi, their latest forks and coil shock are brilliant so the air shock should be good.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • divingmoose
    divingmoose Posts: 540
    The Santa cruz 5010 carbon c 2015 comes with a fox float ctd Kashima and just not sure what to do really as some are saying this runs perfect
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    Cane Creek is in a different league to any other air shock, even the Float X doesn't come close. The only thing to consider with the CCDB air is that it has a limited range of rebound damping.

    Not quite as black and white as that. There are plenty of bikes the CCDB's don't work anywhere near as well as some Fox & RS shocks.

    Bikes don't go quicker just because they have a DB on them ;)
  • Angus Young
    Angus Young Posts: 3,063
    RockmonkeySC wrote:
    Cane Creek is in a different league to any other air shock, even the Float X doesn't come close.

    Hyperbole, much?
    All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
    Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=12994607
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    The Float X is good once it's been Push tuned but as standard it's just not as good.
    The only bike I know of which doesn't work well with Cane Creek shocks is the Specialized Demo, because it bends the shock shaft.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    Or a lot of low compression/dual link bikes, DW Link's for example don't play well with DB's.

    Or funnily enough high leverage ratio bikes with Inlines. They turn into a spikey, horrible mess.

    That said, there isn't much of a comparison between a basic Float CTD and anything, they are pretty dire shocks. There are plenty of options that work as well as a DB for a lot less cost after a bit of tuning for your requirements.

    I'd suggest speaking to a suspension tuner and going from there.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    I know quite a few people with CCDB's on Devinci Wilson's (DW link) and they come as standard on the carbon frame.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • poah
    poah Posts: 3,369
    Hob Nob wrote:

    Or funnily enough high leverage ratio bikes with Inlines. They turn into a spikey, horrible mess.

    I would completely disagree with that
    CCDB IL coil CS first impressions

    MTB Scotland youtube channel
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    POAH wrote:
    Hob doorknob wrote:

    Or funnily enough high leverage ratio bikes with Inlines. They turn into a spikey, horrible mess.

    I would completely disagree with that

    TF and others have stated they don't work well with high leverage ratio bikes, or if you are a bit of a biffer. CC cryptically try to steer you towards the DBA instead.

    I'd agree, The 2 Inlines I tried (first went bang) don't work at all well on a new Giant Reign, which is a reasonably high leverage ratio (57mm stroke for 160mm travel). In fact they were worse than the cheap OE standard Monarch Debonair. The tuning range available just didn't work at all, even with all the volume spacers in the can, and I'm not even a biffer,
  • divingmoose
    divingmoose Posts: 540
    The bike shop who supply the build said in there opinion the that the fox float ctd on the 2015 model is a great shock in their opinion and said to stick with it
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    As standard they don't work well with high leverage rates or fatties because of the lack of rebound dmping range but TF Tuned do a mod to the rebound damper to make it work
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    divingmoose wrote:
    The bike shop who supply the build said in there opinion the that the fox float ctd on the 2015 model is a great shock in their opinion and said to stick with it

    Do you feel confident in setting a shock up to get the best from it?

    If not then get the Kashima Float CTD and have it tuned IMHO.
  • paul.skibum
    paul.skibum Posts: 4,068
    Rick Draper wrote:
    paul.skibum wrote:
    To my way of thinking the CTD system is flawed design. I would sacrifice other components and get the best shock you can which from what I have read would be the CC. I switched from a CTD (albeit an Evo series base level) on my Bronson to a Monarch and it was night and day.

    Paul, did you not have the Evolution series fox stuff? The rear shock is terrible, the worst I have seen in recent production years. Cracked shims are common on them due to the way they stack the shims. I rebuilt one that was like a pogo stick, it had cracked 2 shims and had no rebound control at all.

    Yep I had the boggest of the bog standard but I still feel the principle of CTD is flawed. Its a shame SC dont spec with RS shocks - the Monarch on my Bronson is a great shock as far as my limited knowledge of these things can tell.
    Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.
  • poah
    poah Posts: 3,369
    Hob Nob wrote:
    POAH wrote:
    Hob doorknob wrote:

    Or funnily enough high leverage ratio bikes with Inlines. They turn into a spikey, horrible mess.

    I would completely disagree with that

    TF and others have stated they don't work well with high leverage ratio bikes, or if you are a bit of a biffer. CC cryptically try to steer you towards the DBA instead,

    well it works brilliantly on my high ratio bike
    CCDB IL coil CS first impressions

    MTB Scotland youtube channel
  • poah
    poah Posts: 3,369
    Rick Draper wrote:
    divingmoose wrote:
    The bike shop who supply the build said in there opinion the that the fox float ctd on the 2015 model is a great shock in their opinion and said to stick with it

    Do you feel confident in setting a shock up to get the best from it?

    If not then get the Kashima Float CTD and have it tuned IMHO.

    TF set the shock up for you. the factory upgrade and push tune will cost roughly the same as buying a new inline which is well suited to 125mm bike. There is also plenty of info about tuning on the CC website for the 5010.
    CCDB IL coil CS first impressions

    MTB Scotland youtube channel
  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    POAH wrote:
    Rick Draper wrote:
    divingmoose wrote:
    The bike shop who supply the build said in there opinion the that the fox float ctd on the 2015 model is a great shock in their opinion and said to stick with it

    Do you feel confident in setting a shock up to get the best from it?

    If not then get the Kashima Float CTD and have it tuned IMHO.

    TF set the shock up for you. the factory upgrade and push tune will cost roughly the same as buying a new inline which is well suited to 125mm bike. There is also plenty of info about tuning on the CC website for the 5010.

    TF set you a base tune that they "think" would work best for your application, if that works for you then that is all good. Mine was vastly different to the tune Cane Creek released for the Nomad and had the XV air can when Cane Creek recommended the standard sized can.
  • poah
    poah Posts: 3,369
    Rick Draper wrote:
    TF set you a base tune that they "think" would work best for your application, if that works for you then that is all good. Mine was vastly different to the tune Cane Creek released for the Nomad and had the XV air can when Cane Creek recommended the standard sized can.

    they also "think" about what shims to put in when you get a shock pushed. well the shock comes in both normal and XV aircan so I can only assume you bought the wrong one.
    CCDB IL coil CS first impressions

    MTB Scotland youtube channel
  • Dick Scruttock
    Dick Scruttock Posts: 2,533
    POAH wrote:
    Rick Draper wrote:
    TF set you a base tune that they "think" would work best for your application, if that works for you then that is all good. Mine was vastly different to the tune Cane Creek released for the Nomad and had the XV air can when Cane Creek recommended the standard sized can.

    they also "think" about what shims to put in when you get a shock pushed. well the shock comes in both normal and XV aircan so I can only assume you bought the wrong one.

    Really I had no idea that it came in XV and standard cans :shock: I spoke to TF and they advised the XV can.

    I'd think shims on a Push job are more to do with advice from push industries on what works.
  • rockmonkeysc
    rockmonkeysc Posts: 14,774
    They set up the shim stacks based on the information you give them, there are base tunes from Push but it's only ever going to be as good as the information you provide.
    Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=13070235
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    POAH wrote:
    well it works brilliantly on my high ratio bike

    YMMV, of course. My own opinion merely reflected that of other sources - in general it's not not the best option for certain applications.

    People do seem to like them on shorter travel stuff like the Solo though.

    Me personally, I think i'd rather a Fox/RS Chassis with someone like Avalanche doing their thing on it.

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