Strava Bubble Burst?

markhewitt1978

The worst ones are where someone has ridden a virtual course on their turbo trainer and then uploaded it to Strava as a real ride.

itboffin

Out of interest has anyone tried the Garmin fit app?

rolf_f

Il Principe wrote:

The 2015 PR/KOM thing is hugely annoying though and if you are in/around London there are now stupid amounts of segments.

It's not the 2015 thing that's the problem - it's the all time KOMs that are.

2015 stuff calms down fairly quickly but it means there are useful challenges to go for to get some decent segment KOMs. The all time ones are just waiting for really good riders to take them. The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Annual ones you don't have to take that seriously - there's less point cheating because you'll only have to do it again next year and it isn't pretending that you really are an all time genius.

But the trouble with the 2015 ones is that they are overshadowed by the all time results. Strava takes itself too seriously - it thinks KOMs mean something. If it just binned the all time (but recorded your best times, for your own benefit and so only you could look at them) then you'd have a much more fun "game" - and a game is all it is.

pastryboy

Rolf F wrote:

If it just binned the all time (but recorded your best times, for your own benefit and so only you could look at them) then you'd have a much more fun "game" - and a game is all it is.

The filters already let you see only your own times (or those you follow). No need to bin anything.

bigmat

Rolf F wrote:

The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Speak for yourself!

Seriously, if somebody is faster than you, you don't get to be KOM. It isn't that difficult a concept.

okgo

BigMat wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Speak for yourself!

Seriously, if somebody is faster than you, you don't get to be KOM. It isn't that difficult a concept.

Give it up Matt. That KOM of yours is nothing , wiggins could do it quicker.

:roll:

rolf_f

pastryboy wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

If it just binned the all time (but recorded your best times, for your own benefit and so only you could look at them) then you'd have a much more fun "game" - and a game is all it is.

The filters already let you see only your own times (or those you follow). No need to bin anything.

You are missing my point! ie that the all time KOM will always be what everyone compares themselves to as long as it is there whether that's a good thing or not. But as time goes by, and the more people have been over more segments, the likelihood of anyone getting a new one that isn't some contrived segment that only they do gets less and less. Keeping the all time KOMs on the board just means that Strava gets progressively more boring year on year. Is the TdF interesting because someone beat someone else up Ventoux by 6 seconds or is it interesting because the winner got up it a few seconds more quickly than last year?

BigMat wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Seriously, if somebody is faster than you, you don't get to be KOM. It isn't that difficult a concept.

That completely misses the point but never mind!

markhewitt1978

Rolf F wrote:

But the trouble with the 2015 ones is that they are overshadowed by the all time results. Strava takes itself too seriously - it thinks KOMs mean something. If it just binned the all time (but recorded your best times, for your own benefit and so only you could look at them) then you'd have a much more fun "game" - and a game is all it is.

That was my opinion when they first announced the 2015 scheme. That they should go all the way and scrap all time KOM awards - it's entirely arbitrary anyway dating from when Strava started, and just make it an annual competition only.

Keep PR's etc for all time records.

daniel_b

markhewitt1978 wrote:

That was my opinion when they first announced the 2015 scheme. That they should go all the way and scrap all time KOM awards - it's entirely arbitrary anyway dating from when Strava started, and just make it an annual competition only.

Keep PR's etc for all time records.

I agree, that sounds like an excellent idea, keeps it fresh, and means you have to go out and try your hardest (If you want the KOM or whatever) the following year - might get more people out on their bikes in early January!

surrey_commuter

Rolf F wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

The 2015 PR/KOM thing is hugely annoying though and if you are in/around London there are now stupid amounts of segments.

It's not the 2015 thing that's the problem - it's the all time KOMs that are.

2015 stuff calms down fairly quickly but it means there are useful challenges to go for to get some decent segment KOMs. The all time ones are just waiting for really good riders to take them. The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Annual ones you don't have to take that seriously - there's less point cheating because you'll only have to do it again next year and it isn't pretending that you really are an all time genius.

But the trouble with the 2015 ones is that they are overshadowed by the all time results. Strava takes itself too seriously - it thinks KOMs mean something. If it just binned the all time (but recorded your best times, for your own benefit and so only you could look at them) then you'd have a much more fun "game" - and a game is all it is.

I am not sure an App can take itself too seriously. I would think that 99% of people on Strava are not trying to get KOM and are using it as a motivational training aid. I am equally sure that they would be bewildered and amused at how obsessed the other 1% are.

vermin

Rolf F wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

The 2015 PR/KOM thing is hugely annoying though and if you are in/around London there are now stupid amounts of segments.

It's not the 2015 thing that's the problem - it's the all time KOMs that are.

2015 stuff calms down fairly quickly but it means there are useful challenges to go for to get some decent segment KOMs. The all time ones are just waiting for really good riders to take them. The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Annual ones you don't have to take that seriously - there's less point cheating because you'll only have to do it again next year and it isn't pretending that you really are an all time genius.

But the trouble with the 2015 ones is that they are overshadowed by the all time results. Strava takes itself too seriously - it thinks KOMs mean something. If it just binned the all time (but recorded your best times, for your own benefit and so only you could look at them) then you'd have a much more fun "game" - and a game is all it is.

Surely you're arguing here for less choice. How can restrction of services be good? Under the present system you can filter out the good riders and be pleased with your mediocre performances; whilst the rest of us can compare ourselves to the proper riders. Under your proposed system, only the former applies. It's classic 'dumbing down'. You'll be advocating comprehensive education next.

markhewitt1978

I don't know. The 1% are only bothered as they have the ability to challenge the top of the leaderboard, the rest of us aren't bothered because we can't be bothered, we don't have the ability to be so!

bigmat

Rolf F wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

The only reason any of us have any all time KOMs is because someone who is good hasn't ridden that segment. We fool ourselves if we think our KOMs are any more.

Seriously, if somebody is faster than you, you don't get to be KOM. It isn't that difficult a concept.

That completely misses the point but never mind!

Not sure I'm missing the point, we just disagree - slightly different. I personally like to use Strava to compare my times to those of others. I'm not vain or delusional enough to get upset if others happen to be faster, regardless of whether they are pros, racers, had a headwind, did it before they put speed bumps in, are younger, older, lighter, heavier, fitter, happier, more productive whatever. That's just my view though.

I think the 2015 KOM's are an interesting idea to freshen things up. I would like the option to opt out of then though. Thinking about it, what would be really great would be if they started sending notifications when you lost 2015 KOMs - that would be really great.

surrey_commuter

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I don't know. The 1% are only bothered as they have the ability to challenge the top of the leaderboard, the rest of us aren't bothered because we can't be bothered, we don't have the ability to be so!

exactly it is a comprehensive App that should be all things to all people. Glory in knocking 20 seconds off your RP best not get upset that KOM is 15 mins quicker and advocate abolishing them.

porlyworly

I like Strava as 95%+ of my rides are commutes and the fact each commute is there for all to see motivates me to not just plod along, even on days when I can't really be bothered it pushes me to at the very least post a respectable average speed!

I also like the all time KOM's - even the segments where I'll never be able to challenge the top time I still take satisfaction from getting into the top ten or whatever. At the end of the day it's all a bit of competitive fun and beating PB's is what I aim for.

I was disappointed you now have to pay for veloviewer, never used it that much but was nice to upload the activities once every few weeks and have a play with the statistics. Haven't used it since as it only holds a handful of rides now

daddy0

I still use Strava and I think pretty much everyone in the two clubs I ride with use it too.

There is plenty to Strava, not just KOMs. And, IMO, most KOMs (that aren't on actual mountains) are out of reach due to people having a keen tailwind or tow from a bus, not because Sir Brad decided to take his TT bike for a spin there. My favourite thing about Strava is the club leaderboards, its more fun knowing how you compare to people in your area each week.

markhewitt1978

Being in a club I'd quite like them to do more in that area. Such as club KOM awards or segments which are only for members of your club etc.

roger_merriman

diy wrote:

All the time you are beating personal bests or ranking high on a popular segment its great, but then a closed road race comes along and you drop 30 or 40 places due to the benefit of a closed road, or simply the onset of age means you are no longer improving.

For my self bar MTB ones, since I'm now rolling around town on a old MTB with paniers etc, vs a SS roadie and am unlikely to go back to a roadie it's sat unloved for well over a year now, need to find it a new home!

So most of the time I'm nowhere near my old times, unless it's a daft one though lights etc.

But I like strava as a log and I love maps any how.

sloppyschleckonds

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Being in a club I'd quite like them to do more in that area. Such as club KOM awards or segments which are only for members of your club etc.

Surely you can click on the segment then filter by your club? Do you really need it to say '******Club KOM?

markhewitt1978

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Do you really need it to say '******Club KOM?

Yes.

Gazzaputt

Given up on it myself and use the new Garmin Connect. For me the Garmin Connect layout is far better.

I was bloody addicted to Strava and would fret about not get enough miles and averages etc etc.

My cycling has now gone back to being a past time and not my life I've found since ditching Strava.