Who loves their power meter?

white91

I am thinking about getting a power meter, the main problem is the price!

I think with a £500 budget, I could find something used.

I would prefer a pedal based system, and ideally the ability to monitor each leg, therefore Garmin Vectors seem the ideal solution.

Do people actually ultilise the power data or just like to see numbers?

cougie

What are you going to use it for ?

I've got one. In hindsight its main use is on the turbo so i can fine tune my training. Its hard to replicate that kind of thing on the road and as my road riding time is limited - it turns out to be more of a social ride.

I could have done it cheaper with a new turbo and virtual power - but I will be doing some races with the PM and an Ironman so it could be handy there for pacing.

paxington

You can get a power tap G3 hub for just over £500 brand new. Then whatever it costs to have it built into your wheel.
I have one and it's good in that it's easily transferable between bikes.
The downside, obviously, is that you're tied to that particular wheel/wheel-set if you want power readings. The numbers are useful and correlate more directly and reliably with performance than heart rate alone.

brettjmcc

Just a bit more than £500, but I won a Rotor (full) with new 105 rings last week for 645. I've seen Rikens go for as low as 450 (which measures both, but doesn't show split) and Elsas for 650 mark. I've gone down this route, as I can swap the cranks between all 3 of my bikes (TT, best and training)

If you don't want the latest and greatest, Power2Max are currently selling off their original Classic range (I think they had some temp drift issues but that is now fixed); you can get a FSA Gossamer one for €690/£517, but you will need to use your current rings or buy a new set.

StillGoing

Go to Powermeter24.co.uk where the prices are much better than the UK. I managed to get a Stages power meter for £150 less than the UK price including free delivery. It's a German company but the web site has a translation.

cycleclinic

I think the power tap is the best solution here for the op budget but power meters are not essential for effective training. I asked a coach about this yesterday and his response they can provide useful data but he has a number of good cyclist that Don, the use them. If your budget is going to lead you to buy a comprise or a used power meter which may need calibration or is that bit closer to failure is it really worth it.

MiddleRinger

I very much doubt you'll find second hand Garmin Vectors for a £500 budget.

Your easiest option would be a second hand Powertap wheel, look around and you'll find a good quality training wheel with an SL+ or G3 hub that fits into your price range. There's the Stages crank arm option too if you're happy with the single leg power reading.

Oh and to answer your question, yes I do love my power meter!

napoleond

Power meters 24 don't seem cheaper than cyclepowermeters.com, plus the latter is british and does 0% if necessary.
I've been using powertap since 2008.
I'm tempted by an infocrank for my Tt bike but waiting to see what the watt team meter is like.

FransJacques

I got a used Stages for £450 from an elite racer buddy who used it twice. Lucky deal but keep your ear to the ground. The bottom stages is only £599 so not far off. I know your comment about L/R balance but you have to ask why that's so important...

Agree that a used Quark Riken is also a good bet for the money.

I had a powertap in 2008 and I bet used models of that era are super cheap (I've never checked eBay)

StillGoing

NapoleonD wrote:

Power meters 24 don't seem cheaper than cyclepowermeters.com, plus the latter is british and does 0% if necessary.
I've been using powertap since 2008.
I'm tempted by an infocrank for my Tt bike but waiting to see what the watt team meter is like.

Well considering I just picked up a Stages SRAM power meter for EUR 594 (roughly £445 delivered) I'd say that makes them much cheaper than Cyclepowermeter.com who charge £599. But, if you're happy to pay extra just to buy it from a British company, good for you. Personally, I'd sooner have the money in my pocket. Again but, the 0% finance is useful if people want to splash out on a more precise device but can't afford to pay up front.

napoleond

Fair enough, stages is cheaper there.

cycleclinic

The distirbutor maybe putting some sort of price control on sellers. Some distributors will not sell to a retailer if they start selling cheap. I have no idea if this is the case with Stages it may not be but I can think of a couple of brands where this is the case.

paxington

If you decide to go down the second hand route, I think that Quarqs are a good option. They come with a 2year warranty that moves with the PM.
I bought a Cinqo Saturn off of Ebay, despite having low miles it quickly developed an issue wherby it switched itself off after approx 30 minutes riding. I contacted cyclepowermeters.com and was told that I could get a free Riken to replace it under warranty despite not being the original owner as long as it was less than two years old.
In the end I paid a bit extra to upgrade the warranty replacement to an Elsa instead. The Elsa is smaller/ligther and has "power balance" for right and left bias % readings.
I'd avoid the Saturn unless you find one really cheap and under two years old, apparently they have a fairly common issue with water ingress. The time window for that scenario (Saturn < 2 years old)I would guess is pretty small or non existent now anyway.
The Elsa and Riken have the added advantage of not needing recalibration every time you change chain ring sizes. I went for a 110 bcd and so now can run 50/34(36) and 52/36(38). Also running as I do Sram 900 series cranksets the PM spider moves easily between BB30 and GXP versions(again, without recalibration). Therfore I can run the Quarq on bikes with either BB platform.

iPete

Yes love them, have had a Powertap on my fixed and road bike for 3 months now.
Biggest use has been on the turbo and working out FTP; 'Speed' is no longer looked at during rides either.

Managed to get NOS items built onto wheels for £550.

The data comes in useful for all riding if you structure by zones/efforts. Knowing your limits is very handy; helped me break away to my first road win last week.

nicklong

I got a Vector S (left only) last year for just over £500 (Wiggle pricematched a German retailer). Since I got it, I wish I had bought it ages ago.

Really improving my training, linked up to Trainer Road. Looking forward to comparing my numbers when my race season starts so I can see how to tailor my training. On the other hand, it is a lot of money just to "look at your numbers".

Regardless of what meter you go for, I'd read the Joe Friel Training Bible and the Allen/Coggan Training and Racing With a Power Meter before / ASAP after you get one.

Dippydog3

Interesting. Lots of price stuff but no one has said it is useful on the road, just useful on a turbo.

I love training to FTP indoors, but personally, I have found no significant difference (from a training standpoint) in power readings from my turbo, which had virtual power, to my Wattbike with its very accurate power meters.

So, the cheapest solution would seem to be virtual power on a turbo and don't bother on the road.

napoleond

I do like uploading rides from outside and looking at the power data. Especially from races, it really shows you what needs work and is great for pacing.

iPete

They are great outside too, so much so I got a second for my commuter (this is where most of my miles are done) and the live data certainly contributed to a recent race win.

stueys

I got vector about 3 months after it came out whilst in the U.S. on a trip. I was using trainer road virtual power before on the turbo and heart rate out on the road. Turbo I'm training exactly the same way but with more accuracy, on the road I'm pushing myself more using power as I try to hold specific watts on climbs or a intervals. for me I wouldn't go back to not having power but I like having all the data in front of me.

Without a doubt the power meter makes training more exact and hence beneficial, but the real benefit is for the guys who TT and race who can dole out efforts and push themselves closer to their limits.

pippi_langsamer-2

Id consider a 4iii ordered from States. They've been shown to be there or thereabouts in terms of accuracy compared to the SRM benchmark. You could get two for the price of other meters for independant leg measurements.

Sure, they're more of a permanent fixture to your crank arms, and as of yet a carbon armed version isn't available. Worth a look though.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/09/4iii ... ision.html

http://4iiii.com/product/precision/

FransJacques

Pippi brings up a good point - before you buy anything it is totally worth reading what DCRainmaker thinks of it. He gets into the detail on reviews but it trumps most things you'll read by most reviewers out there.

StillGoing

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

Id consider a 4iii ordered from States. They've been shown to be there or thereabouts in terms of accuracy compared to the SRM benchmark. You could get two for the price of other meters for independant leg measurements.

Sure, they're more of a permanent fixture to your crank arms, and as of yet a carbon armed version isn't available. Worth a look though.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2014/09/4iii ... ision.html

http://4iiii.com/product/precision/

I did have an advanced order for the 4iiii Precision, but they're taking so long to sort it and the aforementioned issue of it being stuck to your crank so non-transferable without swapping the crankset over, I cancelled it. It does work with carbon crank arms, they just haven't worked out what the reliability with carbon is. Rotor crank arms by not having a flat surface are the big no no.

white91

Thanks for all the replies!

Basically I want to work on my pedalling technique, so I think both leg data would be good for this, and also to keep track of my progress on my training rides.

I have watched a few durianrider videos, he loves his power meter! I currently use HR to monitor my effort, but watts are more reliable.

As newer technology comes around power meters seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper, so I'm just trying to judge when to jump on the bandwagon, and which wagon is the best.

paxington

white91 wrote:

Thanks for all the replies!

Basically I want to work on my pedalling technique, so I think both leg data would be good for this, and also to keep track of my progress on my training rides.

I have watched a few durianrider videos, he loves his power meter! I currently use HR to monitor my effort, but watts are more reliable.

As newer technology comes around power meters seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper, so I'm just trying to judge when to jump on the bandwagon, and which wagon is the best.

I too was interested in pedaling technique. I found using the L/R% comparison that I was putting slightly more power through the left crank. This didn't surprise me as I had an ACL reconstruction on my right knee some years ago and so sub-consciously tend to protect it.
With quite a lot of conscious effort I was able to cancel out this tendency. Now I find the bias has gone the other way ie more power through the right hand crank. All in all not the outcome I was after !

white91

I tore my MCL, do I think I protect my knee too much, funny thing is that the injury got me into road cycling!

white91

I have put this on hold pending a 4iii and the compatability with Sram Red. Hopefully they will actually be affordable, and ultimately drive the power meter prices down! I can see these becoming as common as GPS in 5 years

StillGoing

white91 wrote:

I have put this on hold pending a 4iii and the compatability with Sram Red. Hopefully they will actually be affordable, and ultimately drive the power meter prices down! I can see these becoming as common as GPS in 5 years

I think you're going to be waiting a long time. 4iiii are still ironing out the issues with calibration on solid crank arms let alone finalising testing with carbon crank arms. I have a SRAM Red crank set that I was going to fit the Precision to which has been on order since October 2014 to guarantee first shipment. I've recently cancelled it and opted to go down the Stages route. It works, it's here and you can remove it if you ever sell the bike and put the original crank arm back on.

gotwood25

white91 wrote:

Thanks for all the replies!

Basically I want to work on my pedalling technique, so I think both leg data would be good for this, and also to keep track of my progress on my training rides.

I have watched a few durianrider videos, he loves his power meter! I currently use HR to monitor my effort, but watts are more reliable.

As newer technology comes around power meters seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper, so I'm just trying to judge when to jump on the bandwagon, and which wagon is the best.

I have Vectors and found that my L/R balance was massively off, typically 40/60 which got progressively worse the more tired I got and my form went out the window. Having this data allowed me to work on pedal technique and also to correct my form when fatigued.

thomasmorris

I got a Power2Max classic on FSA gossamer cranks. Put my existing chain rings on it. (£520) http://www.power2max.de/europe/en/Produkt/bestsellers/power2max-fsa-gossamer-road/

The classic design don't have any calibration issues anymore and work identically to the new design, the difference is the new design the battery pod is within the spider, and is slightly lighter. (queried further up in the thread think)

When first brought out the cranks just re-calibrate when you free wheeled but there would be no temperature compensation between freewheeling. Therefore, if you rode constant through a big temperature change you could get drift (say climbing a long alpine col, or taking your bike out from inside). Now each power meter is lab tested a and a drift compensation algorithm is set for each unit. So, basically, if you go up a big mountain and don't stop pedaling it will correct itself using the drift correction, until you stop pedaling and then it will do a full re-calibration (exactly how stages and the new Power2Max works). If you bought before they applied the temperature drift compensation you can send your device back for it to be applied free of charge.

In my price range when I looked were a few options, powertap wheel (~£630), stages left crank (~£600), rotor left crank (~£650), garmin left pedal (£674). Or obviously power2max classic (£520).

I ruled out powertap as it would mean having to choose whether to have it as a race wheel, turbo wheel, or training wheel. Having the power measured in the drivetrain means I can swap wheels.

I ruled out garmin: one leg only and more expensive.

I ruled out stages: battery draining issues, one leg only, more expensive.

I ruled out rotor; more expensive, left leg only.

(I also looked at 4iii, which would have been cheapest, but the lead time was too long and all powermeters seem to have teething issues so...)

Power2Max was the cheapest option, and measured power from both legs. It gives you an estimated split based upon where in the stroke power is being applied (this shows i'm right leg dominant between 2-8% varying on effort and fatigue), it's not true left-right power though as you can make the right leg dominant by pulling 'up' on the left leg and visa-versa.

I've found the powermeter very useful, especially outdoors. Indoors I have a magnetic turbo so can use a calibration for that which is a good estimate. However, the power meter is great for pacing on long steady intervals when you get HR drift. It's also invaluable on short intervals (<3min) where HR lag skews data. I've also found it really great post race / ride to analyse the build up of stress in races, how my tactics effected that, and to devise training sessions which better replicate my racing efforts.

white91

Great insights here, I can now see a dual leg version is what I want, and if one comes along at the right price I will get one.

This is of course a massive luxury, and hopefully my winter bike will be the best investment I make, closely followed by a PM