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Edinburgh Tram and Bike Accidents

meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,337
edited February 2015 in Commuting chat
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edi ... e-30951833

My mate being interviewed about the tram situation in Edinburgh. I can't believe so many riders have been hurt. He wrecked a load of new Assos gear
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH

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  • j_mcdj_mcd Posts: 472
    They can be a bit dangerous. One of my most embarrassing falls came as a result of some newly purchased clipless shoes (first ever pair) and the newly installed Luas tracks in Dublin.

    Bloody hurt and was a total shock as it happened so quickly and out of nowhere.
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  • graeme_s-2graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    Love the van cutting up a taxi in the background at the start of the video. The camera's only been rolling for 9 seconds and they've already filmed someone driving like a maniac.
  • Graeme_S wrote:
    Love the van cutting up a taxi in the background at the start of the video. The camera's only been rolling for 9 seconds and they've already filmed someone driving like a maniac.

    To be fair, the traffic approaches the tramlines from 2 lanes. The central dashed line disappears at the point where both lanes of traffic meets the tramlines leaving drivers uncertain whether or not the road still has two lanes.
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 7,470
    I think the council only have themselves to blame here. Firstly they had about five years to figure this out while the much delayed project was underway. The problem here is integrating the taxi rank at Haymarket station with the tram line. Haymarket has also recently been totally reconfigured. So, secondly they missed the chance to create a new provision for taxis when this was done. They were advised of this danger on many occasions. Like all good civil servants the consulted widely in order to be seen to cover themselves. If a censored design is implemented after wide consultation, it must be okay, no?

    I've spoken to this council on several occasions about cycle facilities which appear designed to get someone hurt and the first thing anyone says is that they consulted everyone before doing what they did. Well, this is what you get if you ignore advice or are too fearful of possibly inconveniencing drivers.

    Once cyclists began getting hurt and this particular location, they added more road markings. So thirdly, the council have essentially acknowledged that there is a problem with a manifestly ineffective sticking plaster solution.

    Tram lines, level crossings and cattle grids will always pose a danger to cyclists. The difference here is that for the convenience of taxis, cyclists are being placed in danger. For those who don't know this area, the only reason this is a problem is that in order to avoid inconveniencing taxis waiting to get into an already filled taxi rank, the cycle lane has basically been diverted through the taxi rank. Take taxis away and cycles could safely run parallel to the tracks as they do elsewhere on the route.

    The council really need to get a bloody nose on this one, for the greater good, because it is such an extreme example of doing the easier thing at the risk of cyclists' health.
  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,337
    I was reading some of the usual shite that gets posted on newspaper websites where cyclist are involved. Lots of comments about the cyclists taking responsibility for their own actions and they should take the bus or team instead. None realising that, with the central belt being one of the unhealthiest places in the UK, not many people are taking responsibility for their own actions by remaining fit and healthy. And maybe doing so by cycling.
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  • graham.graham. Posts: 862
    Tram lines, level crossings and cattle grids will always pose a danger to cyclists.
    Level crossings and cattle grids are always located on a straight stretch of road and so you always cross them 90 degrees to their direction of travel and in a straight line and so shouldn't be a problem.Tram lines however...
  • graham.graham. Posts: 862
    Another tramline victim...Hammond on last night's Top Gear!
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Graham. wrote:
    Another tramline victim...Hammond on last night's Top Gear!

    That was most amusing. Soon as I saw he was cycling near the tramlines I thought he's going to come a cropper in a minute. Splat! The Assos gear seemed to hold up quite well considering he hit the road like a fridge. Not so lucky with the rear mech though.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 16,856
    Graham. wrote:
    Another tramline victim...Hammond on last night's Top Gear!
    I was not impressed with his riding at all.
    Going over a pedestrian crossing whilst pedestrians are crossing and moaning about it simply reinforces the negative stereotypes about cyclists.
    Richard indeed.
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  • slowbikeslowbike Posts: 8,498
    my boss proudly gloated about Hammonds "ride" laughing about how he had to borrow a MTB after crashing his £9k road bike and going from averaging 25-26mph on the road bike to considerably less on the MTB ....
  • I've been cycling down The Mound, across Princes Street, up S St Davids Street. From there I've ether gone along York Place towards the Playhouse or left along George Street and then back across Princes Street*. On a road bike with 700C 23 tyres (bumpy).

    When I've came across the tram lines I just bisect them at 90 degrees. I will even do a little swerve / tack before crossing to make sure I've got myself positioned at 90 deg. At the bottom of The Mound at the traffic lights this usually involves myself going straight forwards rather than following the curve of the lane, then turning right only after crossing the tram line. Fingers crossed, hasn't caused an "off" yet.



    * At the Mound, can bikes turn left onto Princes Street?
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  • YIManYIMan Posts: 576
    Here in Beeston in Nottingham we have new tram tracks with the tram due to finally go live in mid 2015.

    I'm already seeing a spate of reports of cycling accidents on local groups.

    I can't help but think it comes down to awareness/training and bike skills....there must be many cities around the world where trams and bikes co-exist happily - or do they?
  • seajaysseajays Posts: 330
    YIMan wrote:
    I can't help but think it comes down to awareness/training and bike skills....there must be many cities around the world where trams and bikes co-exist happily - or do they?

    Some interesting stuff on this page: http://www.spokes.org.uk/documents/publ ... port/tram/

    It also has links at the bottom to some documents about better tram/cycling integration.
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  • YIMan wrote:
    Here in Beeston in Nottingham we have new tram tracks with the tram due to finally go live in mid 2015.

    I'm already seeing a spate of reports of cycling accidents on local groups.

    I can't help but think it comes down to awareness/training and bike skills....there must be many cities around the world where trams and bikes co-exist happily - or do they?

    This would explain the weird off road / on road bit leaving Ruddington to Nottingham at the new lights being put in as it crosses the road.
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  • Just looking at that video on the Spokes website :shock: If cyclists are meant to be there (judging by the number in the video, that is certainly what it looks like), that's an insane arrangement! As I've been cycling around Amsterdam (which is stuffed full of trams), there's nowhere that bikes need to cross tram lines at anything less than 45deg and nearly always at 90deg. Riding parallel to rails is a recipe for disaster
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • seajaysseajays Posts: 330
    Just looking at that video on the Spokes website :shock: If cyclists are meant to be there (judging by the number in the video, that is certainly what it looks like), that's an insane arrangement!

    They're not - the "solution" is that cyclists are supposed to turn off left down the right hand side of the taxi rank, which then ends in a new set of traffic lights which you have to stop at to cross the lines at more of an angle. It's not a great solution, as apparently you have problems at busy times if there is a queue of bikes as you are on the right hand side of the taxi's that are also pulling out forwards, so you're in conflict with them to get back to the left when you're pulling out across the junction.

    There's no taxis on this image, but very often there's a queue right out into the road!
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