Leinders Banned
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/j ... sky-doctor
Didn't realise that he'd actually been charged. Not sure if Biking Bernie is here or not under another guise but, in any event, it looks like he was right and I was wrong.
Didn't realise that he'd actually been charged. Not sure if Biking Bernie is here or not under another guise but, in any event, it looks like he was right and I was wrong.
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Beautifully put by one of our own
@iain_forfar
Yes, keep mentioning Geert was doctor at sky, you brave brave warriors for truth
and less so by myself
@ddraver
I ll bet you a groat that @TeamSky is mentioned a billion more times than Rabbobank or @LottoJumbo_roadWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Don't say his name.
Can we say Howard?
Lots of hand wringing today. And also, I popped down to my local straw man shop and they said they'd had a run today as cycling fans seem desperate to create their own.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
The ironic thing about all of this is that Leinders didn't seem to be all that good at the doping business. He's still advocating doping with family blood in 2004, gets recommended a product he's unaware of that 'all the other teams are using' and then seems to be eased aside around 2005/6 in favour of Matschiner and van Mantgem and Rabobank start winning Grand Tours.
He's made out to by some sort of lowlander Ferrari, but he doesn't seem to know anything special that you couldn't learn in a day.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:He's made out to by some sort of lowlander Ferrari, but he doesn't seem to know anything special that you couldn't learn in a day.
Leinders, get ye from The Deathstar, you've done Sky wrong!
Your doping's shite and you've left an awful pong.
Same for Yates, Bobby, Rogers... and Steve De Jongh!
What now for the seemingly unemployable Gert?
"Over here, Doc!", they cry, "get a job with Bert!".0 -
He must be doing the walk of shame as a doping doctor as, with the exception of everyone's favourite Mexican Dane,(and only then with mixed results) Rabo were gash.
I've rated that squad far more highly since they stopped wearing orange0 -
Lots more coming..
https://translate.google.dk/translate?s ... edit-text=
Although it's been no secret that UCI covered up Rabobank. Michael wrote that in his book a couple of years ago. Though, I don't recall him naming any names in that book.0 -
There's only one reason a team employs a doctor like Leinders.0
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He was pretty good at it, just not as effective as others. As demonstrated, he also had a hot-line to the UCI to get TUEs backdated and would get a heads up on any adverse blood readings. That's got to be a marginal gain worth investing in.0
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'Hot-line'? That's a little dramatic. The contact details were on UCI website under the section about procedures for getting a TUE. And the warnings about blood readings were pre bio passport.Rodrego Hernandez wrote:He was pretty good at it, just not as effective as others. As demonstrated, he also had a hot-line to the UCI to get TUEs backdated and would get a heads up on any adverse blood readings. That's got to be a marginal gain worth investing in.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
'Hot-line'? That's a little dramatic. The contact details were on UCI website under the section about procedures for getting a TUE. And the warnings about blood readings were pre bio passport.Rodrego Hernandez wrote:He was pretty good at it, just not as effective as others. As demonstrated, he also had a hot-line to the UCI to get TUEs backdated and would get a heads up on any adverse blood readings. That's got to be a marginal gain worth investing in.
My apologies, I didn't realise there was a section on the UCI website about getting backdated TUEs.
It doesn't matter that the warnings ref blood values were pre bio-passport, the 50% HCT level was in way before then.
If you think it completely above board and normal that a member of the governing bodies anti doping unit was acting this way then fair enough.
The question you need to be asking is when would a team with a zero tolerance policy on doping employ, for a couple of years as a consultant, a doctor involved in running a team wide doping program that coincidentally involved riders you had also employed. The same team that is famed for its methodical approach to all aspects of cycling, with a database containing details and information on each rider in the pro peloton and with a reputation for not missing anything. The same team that started to get good results after employing this doctor as a consultant. The team that told its sponsor that it had employed the doctor to find out what other teams and riders were up to.0 -
ddraver wrote:Sky have been going for 5 years - have you SERIOUSLY not come up with any better arguments yet?
I'm not arguing anything here, just giving a list of facts for you.
Pro cycling is pretty rotten so please don't think that just because Sky are a british team that they aren't as dirty as the rest of them. It just makes you look silly.
Take a look at some of the USPS fans a few years ago, they look a bit daft now and used surprisingly similar arguments. You die hard sky fans will go the same way.0 -
It's section 4.8 of the TUE guidelines. You should read it. Backdated TUEs can be perfectly legitimate. But is there anything to suggest that Zorzoli was abusing this. Surely you phone him up to get a fast-tracked TUE application (as Froome did) - as the UCI's official go to man.Rodrego Hernandez wrote:My apologies, I didn't realise there was a section on the UCI website about getting backdated TUEs.
But if you were an honest man in that UCI position and you see blood readings jump from 41 to 48 what do you do?Rodrego Hernandez wrote:It doesn't matter that the warnings ref blood values were pre bio-passport, the 50% HCT level was in way before then.
I don't but let's not pretend that Leinders had some special relationship.Rodrego Hernandez wrote:If you think it completely above board and normal that a member of the governing bodies anti doping unit was acting this way then fair enough.
They made a mistake because of all these people that now say they knew about Leinders, not a single one said anything.Rodrego Hernandez wrote:The question you need to be asking is when would a team with a zero tolerance policy on doping employ, for a couple of years as a consultant, a doctor involved in running a team wide doping program that coincidentally involved riders you had also employed. The same team that is famed for its methodical approach to all aspects of cycling, with a database containing details and information on each rider in the pro peloton and with a reputation for not missing anything. The same team that started to get good results after employing this doctor as a consultant. The team that told its sponsor that it had employed the doctor to find out what other teams and riders were up to.
Here's the question you need to ask. If a high budget team was on the look out for someone to run a doping program, why would they hire one whose expertise seems at the level of your average nurse and then put him on the pay roll and make him available to the media in full team kit?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Rodrego Hernandez wrote:ddraver wrote:Sky have been going for 5 years - have you SERIOUSLY not come up with any better arguments yet?
I'm not arguing anything here, just giving a list of facts for you.
Pro cycling is pretty rotten so please don't think that just because Sky are a british team that they aren't as dirty as the rest of them. It just makes you look silly.
Take a look at some of the USPS fans a few years ago, they look a bit daft now and used surprisingly similar arguments. You die hard sky fans will go the same way.
You re doing yourself a disservice here. Come on, time for something new nowWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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RichN95 wrote:Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
They made a mistake because of all these people that now say they knew about Leinders, not a single one said anything.
Here's the question you need to ask. If a high budget team was on the look out for someone to run a doping program, why would they hire one whose expertise seems at the level of your average nurse and then put him on the pay roll and make him available to the media in full team kit?
That's where you're making incorrect assumptions here I'm afraid.
The details will come out in time but it doesn't make them look very good and certainly casts doubt on their performances.0 -
Are they incorrect assumptions?Rodrego Hernandez wrote:RichN95 wrote:Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
They made a mistake because of all these people that now say they knew about Leinders, not a single one said anything.
Here's the question you need to ask. If a high budget team was on the look out for someone to run a doping program, why would they hire one whose expertise seems at the level of your average nurse and then put him on the pay roll and make him available to the media in full team kit?
That's where you're making incorrect assumptions here I'm afraid.
The details will come out in time but it doesn't make them look very good and certainly casts doubt on their performances.
Can you show me anyone raising doubts about Leinders at Sky prior to May 2012? Any of these journalists or bloggers who claim he was infamous.
And can you point out any part in the reasoned decision where Leinders did anything that a nursing student couldn't have done. Even Rabobank seem to have benched him by 2006.Twitter: @RichN950 -
He was under investigation as part of the Rabobank doping scandal that came out of Rasmussens downfall. At least 2 riders Sky employed were aware of this, as were staff at Sky.
You are entitled to believe what you choose but don't be surprised when more of the same starts to come out.0 -
Rodrego Hernandez wrote:You are entitled to believe what you choose but don't be surprised when more of the same starts to come out.
And you'll be hanging out the bunting and celebrating the night away, I'm sure.
Why do so many people seem to revel in this shit?It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Can you clarify for me - do you actually know stuff that isn't in the public domain, or are you just really, really hoping that there's more to come?Rodrego Hernandez wrote:don't be surprised when more of the same starts to come out.0 -
Salsiccia1 wrote:Rodrego Hernandez wrote:You are entitled to believe what you choose but don't be surprised when more of the same starts to come out.
And you'll be hanging out the bunting and celebrating the night away, I'm sure.
Why do so many people seem to revel in this shit?
I'm not really bothered to be honest. The sooner the sport cleans up, the better. Why would you automatically assume that because I have pointed out that Sky are less than 100% clean that I would revel in their downfall?
They had the opportunity to be a clean team and to nurture British talent but they have failed on that. This is the most disappointing thing.
I do know of other stuff but even when it is written down in print, the true blind fan boys won't believe it and the talk of level playing fields will come out again.
At the end of the day, there is only one thing that a doctor like Leinders would be employed to do and it wasn't weighing riders or checking saddle sores, the thing otherwise is just being naive.0 -
Go on then. Try us with this 'other stuff' that you know.Rodrego Hernandez wrote:I do know of other stuff but even when it is written down in print, the true blind fan boys won't believe it and the talk of level playing fields will come out again.Twitter: @RichN950 -
ddraver wrote:Sky have been going for 5 years - have you SERIOUSLY not come up with any better arguments yet?
Tbf, if they'd done their background checks properly they would have saved us all a lot of trouble. I don't think they should be forgiven for that...Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Was that aimed at me? If so you seem to have misunderstood my post.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0
