Which road bike for both commuting and long distance tourin

Hazza88

Hi, after owning a mtb for many years, im looking to get a new road only bike. Me and a friend have decided we want to cycle from bristol to berlin in august this year so im looking to get something that is capable of the journey without spening as much as a touring bike costs. Id also use this bike for daily 3-5 mile rides. Im looking to get something used and my budget is 500. I was looking at the giant defy 3 as from what i read it seems to be a good choice for both short distance and long distrance rides. We will be camping along the way so i i guess it needs rack mounts although i did hear about some sort of clips that you can get that are just as good as rack mounts. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers

mercia_man

Sounds to me like you need a touring bike for the sort of riding you hope to do. You should be able to get something decent used for £500. A road bike like the Giant Defy is not designed for long-distance touring with camping gear. The wheels will not be strong enough, the gearing will be too high, it will be difficult to carry your equipment and the handling with a camping load will be badly compromised. The Defy is a bike for lightly laden rides such as sportives and day trips and maybe short tours at B&Bs.

Something like a used Dawes Galaxy is the sort of thing you want. I would suggest a bike with braze-ons for front and rear racks and panniers to balance your camping load, a triple chainset to enable you to ride comfortably up hills and 36-hole wheels for strength. Ridgeback and Edinburgh also do good budget tourers. Such a bike would also be fine for commuting, particularly as they have mudguards.

ai_1

Any bike suitable for long distances will also be fine for short distances rides/commutes. Pretty much anything will suffice for 3-5 mile daily rides. So, you're really just looking for a bike suitable for long trips/touring.

First thing to consider is a comfortable position. For long rides you may want a more upright position than you could get away with if you only did short rides. Some bikes have a very aggressive geometry which usually translates as a short head tube and therefore low handlebars. Others are either much more upright or somewhere in the middle. If in doubt get something more upright but the stem and spacers will allow you some adjustment after you get the bike.

Second thing is also comfort related. For a long trip you may want to use larger more comfortable tyres and will likely also want to use mudguards. Not all road bikes have sufficient space for both decent sized tyres (I'd want at least enough space for 25mm) and mudguards.

Thirdly, you'll want rack mounts if you're going to go for panniers. There are other solutions like large seatpost mounted bags, but I think they can be very pricey and they don't have the same capacity as panniers. More suitable for Audax I think. On the other hand there are cheap and simple pannier options.

If this is mostly for the short daily rides and the trip to Berlin is a one off then you'll probably get away with any road bike meeting the above criteria. However if you're buying this mostly for the long trip or are likely to do more of them I'd agree with the previous post - get a tourer.

passout

I wouldn't go for a Defy. I think the main thing is how much stuff you want to carry. For light loads 'do it all' bikes might be OK - Planet X London Road, Spa Audax and the like. However I'd guess you might be carrying quite a bit and so would be better off with a proper tourer, which make good do it all bikes anyway. I agree a used Dawes Galaxy would be a very good option. Also look at Spa Cycles and this http://www.hewittcycles.co.uk/complete- ... 6?brand=93 if you can run that that much. This looks good value & comes from a good shop too: http://www.ghyllside.co.uk/shop/bikes/t ... MISlS7-aQk

86inch

Consider also a Surly Long Haul Trucker.

jordan_217

Ribble 525 might *just* be doable for budget. I commute and train on mine and it's a lovely bike. Well finished and lovely to ride. I have a rack fitted to mine and carry a single pannier with my laptop, etc.

I'm planning on doing some short touring on it in the Spring/Summer.

craker

Don't forget to look for Audax style bikes, which might occupy a grey area between sportive bikes and tourers. (I've just spotted that the bike recommend by jordan is advertised as an Audax frame).

passout

If you do go down the audax route, there's this: http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b0s21p2827

tangled_metal

Saw this... http://m.evanscycles.com/products/fuji/ ... e-ec069181

Not sure it's a perfect solution but it's close to your price, new and with racks should be ok.

Anyone got any views on converting an old hardtail mtb into a tourer? A mate has a full rigid mtb fitted with rack, guards, 36 spoke wheels, front and rear racks, etc. Yes it's 26" wheels but perhaps if the OP still has one of his old mtb bikes, perhaps even a hardtail 29er spare that could be converted for less money. If front sus then perhaps you could even switch forks to rigid. Not sure if that's possible.

I've got, well until stolen this week, a specialized Crosstrail Sport Disc hybrid. I find it's a nice bike, very comfortable ride although I've not done a really long ride. I was hoping to go touring this year. One trip we looked into was the Danube cycle path. I was convinced it was comfortable enough and capable of taking a bit of a load. No front rack possible except for the likes of Thule ones which strap onto forks or seat stays.

mercia_man

Hardtail MTB is a good cheap option for touring. I started camping touring in the mid-80s with a rigid 531 Overbury's mountain bike and it was perfect for this. I switched to a proper tourer in 1990 and it was even better, thanks to slightly lighter weight and a bigger range of hand positions due to dropped bars.

Road bikes and audax bikes can be used for lightweight touring. But the OP wants to ride all the way to Berlin with camping gear. There is a big difference between carrying camping gear and lightweight touring at B&Bs or hostels. To cycle up hills with full camping gear you need a gear of 27in or preferably below. I use a 23in gear (24-28). A compact chainset giving a bottom gear of 34-28 or 32 will mean walking up steep hills if you are carrying camping equipment. In nearly 30 years of cycling touring, I've seen many people with broken spokes in their rear wheels. And I've met others complaining of poor laden handling when touring on racy geometry cross bikes. Of course, it's possible to tour on almost anything. But low gears, strong wheels and touring geometry are what you need to make the riding most pleasant. And a rigid mountain bike with road tyres or a proper touring bike are by far the best option.

cycleclinic

An old mtb would be perfect. The old ones from the 80 and 90's are more like touring bikes anyway. Got àn old main palisades that I bought for £42 then stripped it down had it repainted for thirty quid in colchester and then bought second hand XT kit for not a huge amount and the result is a really good touring bike that I have never toured on.

woolwich

Good advice to stay away from a straight road bike. Germany has many hundreds of km of absolutely superb cycle route but occasionally in rural areas you will discover a few miles of Pave (cobbles), this would be a nightmare on a loaded road bike. The light tourer, audax or even old MTB are all great ideas.
The other problem with trying to just get by with a straight road bike, is that the geometry is not great for loaded work. Put 15kg or so over the back wheel and your steering could be at best a bit flightly and at worse horrible.
Final tip for long distance touring is to use a Bar Bag, these seem to go in and out of fashion but are great for having somewhere to stash your maps,cash,phone and other assorted clutter easily accessable right in front of you.
Have a great trip and stay off the schnitzels at lunchtime

tangled_metal

thecycleclinic wrote:

An old mtb would be perfect. The old ones from the 80 and 90's are more like touring bikes anyway. Got àn old main palisades that I bought for £42 then stripped it down had it repainted for thirty quid in colchester and then bought second hand XT kit for not a huge amount and the result is a really good touring bike that I have never toured on.

That is exactly my thinking. The OP is doing one long tour with no mention of whether he's even thinking of keeping touring after. He has his budget of £500 but if this is a one off trip then converting something cheaply to save some of his £500 might be best. If he gets the big he'll want to save up for something better suited and costing alot more than £500. My mate has done quite a few miles in his touring rigid mtb. He said he preferred it to his tourer. Reckoned it coped better with a full load. He did fully customise it though, tweaking it for comfort and load carrying.

tangled_metal

What's a good bar bag btw? We've been looking for one but the bike shops near us seem to have the cheap and nasty Halfords type or the over priced Thule ones. There's always Ortlieb ones but they're very expensive. I've seen some costing more than my Ortlieb panniers, which are a pair. Don't see how Ortlieb justify that. Want one big enough for usual kit plus a map case on top.

mercia_man

Carradice bar bags are good. The cotton duck Super C is brilliant with good QR fixing system and map case but only slightly cheaper than Ortlieb. My wife has one and loves it. The Carradry is similar PVC construction to Ortlieb and is cheaper. Vaude get good reviews but never seen one.

Wynne G Oldman

You could pick one of these up for your budget at the moment. Don't take too long about it though, they'll soon sell out.

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/product ... ring-bikes

cycleclinic

Tha old marin I have I still use for local trail work and it very good bike for 1989.......... If you are clever £200 is the spend you will need to for old MTB.

Look for an old steel Marin Palisades or similar, they are unloved. A muddy fox courier is also another good touring steed. Sold one recently absolutley perfect for the OP excdept it has gone to Cornwall.

tangled_metal

I've just been looking at a tourer from Edinburgh cycle co-op, revolution country explorer '14. It's just under £500. Looks a decent bike for the money. Old school tourer with mechanical disc brakes. Just trying to get my head round the gearing compared to my hybrid. Tempted by it myself.

mercia_man

Tangled Metal wrote:

I've just been looking at a tourer from Edinburgh cycle co-op, revolution country explorer '14. It's just under £500. Looks a decent bike for the money. Old school tourer with mechanical disc brakes. Just trying to get my head round the gearing compared to my hybrid. Tempted by it myself.

That's a good buy. One of the bikes I originally suggested OP should consider. Those budget Edinburgh tourers get best buy accolades from CTC.

tangled_metal

Just seen this offer. Looks ok to me, is it? The gearing looks huge... 50/39/30 and 9 speed 11-34. Reckon that is good range for anyone carrying a load. My old hybrid had 48/36/26 and 11-34 and I felt the granny gears were sufficient for even steep hills while towing a child trailer and light load on the bike. Reckon after a week of your tour on a big hill you'll probably end up appreciating the low gearing on the Sojourn. It looks to me not to have as much of a top gear though. That might annoy if you have any fast downhills on you unladen runs. Anyone know if the top gear is a bit low or sufficient on the Sojourn?

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p3059&z=4147

passout

The above offer looks good. Had a look at revolution bikes too & they look great value too.

mercia_man

Tangled Metal wrote:

Just seen this offer. Looks ok to me, is it? The gearing looks huge... 50/39/30 and 9 speed 11-34. Reckon that is good range for anyone carrying a load. My old hybrid had 48/36/26 and 11-34 and I felt the granny gears were sufficient for even steep hills while towing a child trailer and light load on the bike. Reckon after a week of your tour on a big hill you'll probably end up appreciating the low gearing on the Sojourn. It looks to me not to have as much of a top gear though. That might annoy if you have any fast downhills on you unladen runs. Anyone know if the top gear is a bit low or sufficient on the Sojourn?

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p3059&z=4147

A top gear of 50/11 is huge - a downhill overdrive, not something you could comfortably spin on the flat. Even a 48/11 top gear is high for a touring bike. I use 46/13 top gear and that's fine for spinning at low to mid-20s mph. A 50/39/30 chainset is not ideal for a tourer (it's really a road bike triple), although the Sojourn makes up for the high-geared chainset by having an 11-34 wide range cassette. Experienced tourers prefer a narrower range cassette and smaller chainset (for example, 46/36/24) which gives the low gears you need but smaller jumps between the individual ratios - it really helps to be able to fine tune your gearing when you are carrying a big load up a mountain pass.

Both the Revolution and Raleigh Sojourn tourers on sale look good buys. I prefer the Revolution because it's got better mudguards with twin stays and a chainset/cassette combination giving closer gears in the most used range. If you are willing to spend more money, the Spa Cycles steel tourer is recommended by the CTC as the best touring bike you can get for under £1,000.

tangled_metal

What about Dawes Galaxy AL? Any good? I know Al is not as good as a REynolds Cro Moly for comfort but if your budget is not enough, is it ok? I'm thinking along the lines of the OP's £500 (also about y budget I think).

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2898

mercia_man

Tangled Metal wrote:

What about Dawes Galaxy AL? Any good? I know Al is not as good as a REynolds Cro Moly for comfort but if your budget is not enough, is it ok? I'm thinking along the lines of the OP's £500 (also about y budget I think).

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2898

Yeah, that looks decent for the money. Also consider the steel Dawes Galaxy on sale at Spa for a bit more. It's got a better spec, for example 9 speed as opposed to 8 speed cassette, and has Shimano hubs as opposed to no names. And the discount is bigger. There's a couple of decent looking Ridgebacks at Spa as well. Some people say al is not as good as steel for a tourer because you can't get it welded up as a repair in the middle of nowhere. But I don't think that's a serious issue for most people. Al can make a good stiff frame for touring, slightly lighter than steel but not so long lived. As far as comfort goes, my experience is that tyre size and pressure have far more effect than frame material. A good middle ground size for a tourer is 700x32 which gives comfort and reasonably fast rolling.

Spa have a very good reputation for touring bikes and have various models available for testing. All the bikes there at the price range are fairly similar and it would be perhaps a good idea to go along and see what you like and what fits you.

tangled_metal

I noticed that some Al touring frames came with Cro Moly steel forks. To me that kind of decent use of materials. Cheaper Al in the bulk but a bit of shock absorbing CoMoly in the forks. Is that a fair assumption?

I noticed that Spa also do a Titanium framed tourer. For shock value at the prices I went along to the Thorn website and downloaded their pdf file on tourers. There was a lot on how steel (heat treated Reynolds tubesets especially with the stays) was better than Ti. They made the comment that if non-heat treated steel was gas pipe then cheaper Ti tubesets were made of cooling pipe. Slightly better than gas pipe but not that much and not better than good ht treated steel. I think it was down to cheap Ti actually being welded tube not drawn and butted like I think good steel and Ti is. What is your view?

mercia_man

I have a lot of respect for Thorn and their designer Andy Blance who I suspect is the author of the pdf on tourers. I have never ridden a titanium bike and don't have a technical background but would give a lot of weight to what Thorn says about frame materials. Steel is a classic frame material because it is so good. And modern heat-treated butted steel tubesets are in my view just as good as titanium and significantly cheaper. I also have a gut feeling that a good steel frame will last longer than a titanium one. You do occasionally read on this forum about owners whose titanium frames have failed. My own tourer is steel - a mix of Reynolds 531ST and 531C tubing custom built for me in 1991. I've just come back from a 20-mile spin on it and it's lovely to ride. It's as good now as when it was new.

As for forks, it's pretty common to see Al and Ti frames with steel (Cro Moly) forks. I feel that comments about aluminium frames being stiff and steel being springy are old wives' tales which keep being trotted out. It depends more on the thickness and diameter of the tubing and the geometry of the frame and forks.

tangled_metal

I agree with you on Thorn. What he put in his pdf made sense to me.

I now only own a 25+ year old steel road bike. It has Reynolds 501 tubing (couldn;t afford 531 back then as only 18). It was still £450 back then. Solid ride and rolls well. Just need the quill steerer fixed, new wheels and other bits. Best bike ever IMHO but then I;ve never been able to afford a Thorn!!

Ti bikes that break would probably be the seam welded ones. Ive looked a the Spa Ti tourer and it is seamless costing about £1100 at discount which is a decent steel tourer price I reckon, not Thorn prices though. I like TI as a material but not for bikes. It is a specialist material IMHO not mass produced bikes or even low production run bikes unless at the higher price bracket.