WAAAAY OT: Herbal "medicine" - your experience?

Wheelspinner

In the ongoing search for a treatment that helps with my neck, I've gone to see a (Chinese) acupuncturist / masseur. While I am convinced the massage helps, and think the needles do too, I've been told I should also be shovelling in some of the "traditional" herbal compounds as they will allegedly do wonders.

The expense is considerable, and sceptic that I am, I'm unconvinced that any such pills are going to do much to relieve pinched nerve issues resulting from arthritic deterioration of the vertebrae.

There would appear to be a glaring lack of any reliable evidence in their favour I can find.

Anyone here have experience of this stuff, good or bad or other?

pblakeney

My sister in law is seriously into this stuff.
Her children had lots of health issues as they were growing up which she "successfully" treated.
Strangely, their symptoms disappeared after they had flown the coup.
It is only a small sample but I have drawn my conclusions.
If it works for you, great!

bikes`n`guns

It`s rubbish.
They are purely after your cash.
Massage, and even acupuncture have helped me, but no herbal , or holistic approaches ever have,, well ! cept maybe one "herb" which took away all sorts of pain in my youth !

Don`t even start me on Reiki !

Wheelspinner

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

It`s rubbish.
They are purely after your cash.
Massage, and even acupuncture have helped me, but no herbal , or holistic approaches ever have,, well ! cept maybe one "herb" which took away all sorts of pain in my youth !

Don`t even start me on Reiki !

Hmm, Reiki, not tried that yet...

bikes`n`guns

Dear lord,, don`t

I had never heard of it and a lecturer at my old work offered a "massage" for shoulder pain I was having.
I said OK as I was unaware of Reiki at the time and though it was a type of manipulation, but when she walked behind me and started "drawing " the pain out of my shoulder, making "whooshing" sounds and funny noises I stopped her and told her to bolt!

The Rookie

A friend had great success with acupuncture for a persistent back muscle pain, normal physio had been started but at that time hadn't really helped.

As for other stuff....no thanks.

warreng

I had persistent back pain for about 3 years in my 20s and tried everything as I was desperate. In terms of managing pain I found a mix of co-codamol, diazepam, red wine and spliffs would take the edge of it. It ended up with surgery which solved it entirely

I still get issues with my piriformis muscle - if stretching and ibuprofen don't help acupuncture does which really surprised me as my experiences with the initial back injury led me to believe all non-traditional methods were quackery

holiver

So we're not talking about weed?

holiver

So we're not talking about weed?

Wheelspinner

holiver wrote:

So we're not talking about weed?

No.

tlw1

Wheelspinner wrote:

holiver wrote:

So we're not talking about weed?

No.

I wonder if he is seeing double too?

tlw1

Wheelspinner wrote:

holiver wrote:

So we're not talking about weed?

No.

I wonder if he is seeing double too?

tlw1

Wheelspinner wrote:

holiver wrote:

So we're not talking about weed?

No.

I wonder if he is seeing double too?

crumbschief

Or thricely.

crumbschief

Or thricely.

leeefm

As far as I'm aware, most modern medicines started out as "herbal medicines". For instance aspirin is from salicylic acid from Willow trees. People used to chew the bark for pain relief. So I wouldn't dismiss this branch of medicine out of hand.

As for Chinese medicine, I'm not totally sure about it. A few thousand years of development and use must be getting something right, even trial and error gets results in those timescales. Even the NHS gives acupuncture now, as it is proven to be therapeutic. Whether everything is as they say, though, I'm not so sure. I've got many Chinese acquaintances, and they tell me to not go near a practitioner in this country because - as far as I'm aware - they're not regulated. If you want to see one with some comeback in the event of a mishap, go to one in the far east somewhere where it might be regulated (obviously too impractical).

pblakeney

leeefm wrote:

As far as I'm aware, most modern medicines started out as "herbal medicines". For instance aspirin is from salicylic acid from Willow trees. People used to chew the bark for pain relief. So I wouldn't dismiss this branch of medicine out of hand.

I see what you did there.

elbowloh

I don't really believe in any of it tbh.

Yes some traditional herbal remedies have been tested and then subsumed in to "medicine" (I'm minded of the Tim Minchin quote http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/456548-you-know-what-they-call-alternative-medicine-that-s-been-proved). There may exist some herbal remedies that may be effective and are yet to be tested, but I would imagine that these are rare. Beware of some of these Chinese medicine shops, they are unregulated and you don't really know what you are being given.

I'm not sure that acupuncture has been found to be effective (this coming from someone who is half Chinese)? Even if it is offered on the NHS, this is not proof in itself, as the NHS is still funding homeopathy which, in every properly conducted double-blind study, has been found to be no more effective than placebo.

elbowloh

repost

bunter

Chinese herbal medicine is actually a 20th century thing started under chairman Mao (according to this article)

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/10/traditional_chinese_medicine_origins_mao_invented_it_but_didn_t_believe.html

Chairman Mao Invented Traditional Chinese Medicine
Why did the U.S. Senate unwittingly endorse 1950s Chinese Communist Party propaganda?

daniel_b

bunter wrote:

Chairman Meow Invented Traditional Chinese Medicine
Why did the U.S. Senate unwittingly endorse 1950s Chinese Communist Party propaganda?

mountainpenguin

A good opportunity to post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
Q: do you know what they call alternative medicine that works ?
A: Medicine

asprilla

mountainpenguin wrote:

A good opportunity to post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
Q: do you know what they call alternative medicine that works ?
A: Medicine

That film and quote were the first things that came to mind when I saw this thread.

elbowloh

I referenced it in my earlier post too...

Wheelspinner

Asprilla wrote:

mountainpenguin wrote:

A good opportunity to post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
Q: do you know what they call alternative medicine that works ?
A: Medicine

That film and quote were the first things that came to mind when I saw this thread.

He is a very talented man indeed.

Wheelspinner

An update... I tried the pills and noticed no discernible effect other than a lighter wallet.

More disappointingly, the acupuncture appears to be having an effect, just not a good one. Three successive treatments have left me feeling worse, more sore, and less mobility. Hmmm. May need to start again.

jds_1981

Don't try the http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/21/tapeworm-parasite-mans-brain-four-years-china frog poultice

First.Aspect

You should try magnets. Won't make a blind bit of difference, but you will have ruled them out.

Massage and stretching. There is no golden rivet. And if there is, don't bend down to pick it up.

If massage and stretching doesn't work, try more massage and stretching. If that doesn't work, find a mentally unstable masseur or an especially large one.

Buy lots of odd shaped tools for performing self massage (phnarr). This will enable you to completely overdo it. While you recover from bruising the muscle in question, the injury may heal.

Wheelspinner

First Aspect wrote:

You should try magnets. Won't make a blind bit of difference, but you will have ruled them out.

Massage and stretching. There is no golden rivet. And if there is, don't bend down to pick it up.

If massage and stretching doesn't work, try more massage and stretching. If that doesn't work, find a mentally unstable masseur or an especially large one.

Buy lots of odd shaped tools for performing self massage (phnarr). This will enable you to completely overdo it. While you recover from bruising the muscle in question, the injury may heal.

Magnets work, don't they? Rory McIlroy wears one, so they must be legit, right?? :?

I was thinking I may try crystals next. Just can't decide which: should I use Fluorite, (which sounds awesome, ...cleanses, purifies and dispels anything within the body that is not in perfect order. Fluorite helps with infections and benefits teeth, cells and bones. It repairs DNA damage and is powerful against viruses. Fluorite is beneficial for colds, the flu and sinusitis. This stone alleviates arthritis, rheumatism and spinal injuries. Stroked across the body towards the heart, it provides pain relief. Fluorite rekindles sexual libido), Garnet (because it treats spinal disorders and regenerates DNA! Plus it helps you let go of old obsolete ideas..) or maybe Jasper, although not sure I should. It might nullify the magnets, but at least I can always find water. (Jasper clears electromagnetic and environmental pollution, including radiation, and aids dowsing). Plus, it reduces feelings of being victimized, and who wouldn't want that from a rock, eh?

It's all here:

https://www.naturesforyou.com/shoppingcart/news/156/Best-Stones-and-Crystals-for-Women.html

Sadly, it appears they only work for women. Boo!

I do the massage and stretch routine, just looking for ways to improve the results if I can.

davis

That page is nothing short of comedy gold.

I'm off to dedicate and program some bits of rock.

elbowloh

Homeopathy is the one that gets me, with some claiming its based on ancient herbal remedies.

It's not.

It was invented in the 18th century and is based on 2 ridiculous premises:

1) that "like cures like". So if you suffer from massive headaches, then giving you something else that also gives you a massive headache will cure you.

2) second is that "water has memory". Whatever ingredient is used, they dilute with water. However, the claim is that the more its diluted, the more potent it gets. This, of course, is nonsense. A lot of the solutions used are diluted to such an extent that statistically there is often not a single molecule of the "active ingredient" left in a dose. Proponents get around this by suggesting that water has memory of what that ingredient was. This water is clever, because it obviously has to forget all the other molecules that have previously been in the water, like excrement and urine.