new groupset - 6800 or 5800?

chris_bass

After my shifter broke on my old ultegra 6700 groupset on Friday I have decided that it would be a good time to upgrade the entire groupset (chain and cassette need replacing anyway and the chainrings have seen better days).

I am thinking of going for 6800 as I already have 11 speed compatible wheels so don't have to factor those into the cost but is ultegra worth the extra money?

ugo.santalucia

Chris Bass wrote:

After my shifter broke on my old ultegra 6700 groupset on Friday I have decided that it would be a good time to upgrade the entire groupset

Don't you just love Shimano? You break a spring worth 10 p and it becomes more economical to replace the all group set... :roll:

speshsteve

i think 105 is 11 speed as well isn't it?

I think this would be where my money goes, 200 quid or odd saving...its only 2-300grams heavier too.

Yellow Peril

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

After my shifter broke on my old ultegra 6700 groupset on Friday I have decided that it would be a good time to upgrade the entire groupset

Don't you just love Shimano? You break a spring worth 10 p and it becomes more economical to replace the all group set... :roll:

I like Shimano but he pricing of individual components over a groupset is crazy. 5 years ago a separate set of 5700 shifters cost me close to £200. Now I can get a complete 5800 11 speed groupset for less than £300. There may be other economic factors at play but shifters remain disproportionately expensive and the temptation is always there to spend a little more and buy a completely new groupset.

rowlers

I have both 5800 & 6800 and in use I cannot tell the difference both shift beautifully.
Ultegra looks a bit nicer IMO, but functionally I don't think there is a lot in it.

ugo.santalucia

Yellow Peril wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

After my shifter broke on my old ultegra 6700 groupset on Friday I have decided that it would be a good time to upgrade the entire groupset

Don't you just love Shimano? You break a spring worth 10 p and it becomes more economical to replace the all group set... :roll:

I like Shimano but he pricing of individual components over a groupset is crazy. 5 years ago a separate set of 5700 shifters cost me close to £200. Now I can get a complete 5800 11 speed groupset for less than £300. There may be other economic factors at play but shifters remain disproportionately expensive and the temptation is always there to spend a little more and buy a completely new groupset.

The problem is that retailers buy group sets in bulk and discount them, while they don't do the same on parts.

cycleclinic

You know you can buy replacement shifter bodies don't you. An ultegra one costs around £90 from memory.

Your 10 speed wheels which need an upgrade if you buy 11 speed unless they are already compatible.

letap73

thecycleclinic wrote:

You know you can buy replacement shifter bodies don't you. An ultegra one costs around £90 from memory.

Your 10 speed wheels which need an upgrade if you buy 11 speed unless they are already compatible.

Shifters are available on ebay or BR classifieds for less than £90. Unless of course you must upgrade

In which case the 105 - price is amazing at the moment and there appears to be universal praise for the 11 speed 105 groupset.

How Far is too Far

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

After my shifter broke on my old ultegra 6700 groupset on Friday I have decided that it would be a good time to upgrade the entire groupset

Don't you just love Shimano? You break a spring worth 10 p and it becomes more economical to replace the all group set... :roll:

I have an Athena 11 Speed shifter just over a year old that multi shifts when changing up. I dont think you can get parts for that either?

I also have Shimano 5800 on my winter bike and it is far better to use than the Ultegra 6700 on another bike I have.

JC14

Get 6800 it is just simply a better quality groupset. 5800 is just a cheaper version of 6800, the reason it is cheaper is because shimano have swapped out the parts for lesser quality ones but followed the same design.

Matthewfalle

6800.

markhewitt1978

JC14 wrote:

Get 6800 it is just simply a better quality groupset. 5800 is just a cheaper version of 6800, the reason it is cheaper is because shimano have swapped out the parts for lesser quality ones but followed the same design.

You could use the same argument to say that 5800 is almost as good because it's the same design with just a few bits swapped out.

mikenetic

Either will do you perfectly well. One of the small but definitely noticeable changes on both 5800 and 6800 are the low friction shift and brake cables. If you have traditional external cable routing everything feels amazingly smooth.

6800 is the nicest mechanical groupset I've used.

MisterMuncher

I bought 6800 before 5800 was available. With hindsight, I might have gone for 105, but I know I'd have then hankered after 6800. They're close enough that upgrading wouldn't really be worth the money if you already had 105, but for a new build, I'd go 6800, with 5800 cassette and chain to cut the price a little.

Dippydog3

I have Ultegra 6800 and rode today with someone that has just had new 5800 fitted. We swapped bikes for a bit. Feel wise I dont think there is anything different that you cannot put down to how you set it up.

So it's a personal choice as to whether the colour and slight weight difference is worth the money.

DKay

speshsteve wrote:

i think 105 is 11 speed as well isn't it?

I think this would be where my money goes, 200 quid or odd saving...its only 2-300grams heavier too.

I think the weight difference is closer to 130 - 150g. A piffling difference.

MisterMuncher

From road.cc

5800 without pedals 2682g
6800 without pedals 2313g

350g plus difference, or to put it another way, Ultegra with pedals is about the same as 105 without.

DKay

JC14 wrote:

Get 6800 it is just simply a better quality groupset. 5800 is just a cheaper version of 6800, the reason it is cheaper is because shimano have swapped out the parts for lesser quality ones but followed the same design.

Historically, Shimano 105 groupsets have lasted just as long as Ultegra in terms of wear and durability. If you want to pay more than an extra 50% premium over 5800 for a slightly nicer finish and 'better quality' parts which you won't notice in operation, then go ahead. One particular person who seems to irrationally hate 5800, seems to know a place where a 6800 groupset is only £70 more, but as yet people are waiting for him to reveal where. :?

MisterMuncher

I don't think it's entirely correct to say you won't notice the difference in use. You won't notice after a while, maybe, or if you only experience one, but I could tell the difference easily enough back-to-back, and I'm not exactly a cork-sniffer on these things. It's close, and the differences are subtle, but they do exist.

DKay

MisterMuncher wrote:

From road.cc

5800 without pedals 2682g
6800 without pedals 2313g

350g plus difference, or to put it another way, Ultegra with pedals is about the same as 105 without.

I weighed my own 5800 groupset (170mm 50-34t & 11-28t) at 2553g in total, including brake pads and the chain uncut. Thread link below. I've never been able to check 'real world' weights for 6800 components, but the main weight saving is in the shifters. No doubt, due to the carbon levers of 6800.

viewtopic.php?f=40013&t=12978944

DKay

MisterMuncher wrote:

I don't think it's entirely correct to say you won't notice the difference in use. You won't notice after a while, maybe, or if you only experience one, but I could tell the difference easily enough back-to-back, and I'm not exactly a cork-sniffer on these things. It's close, and the differences are subtle, but they do exist.

Was the comparison done on the same bike, under the same conditions with the only difference being the groupset?

MisterMuncher

Not the same bike, same bike, but with my CAAD10 and one belonging to a friend. The handlebars and bar tape were different, but apart from that, the same. Same wheels, same saddle/post, same setup, same 30 mile loop. My friend's bike had slightly different rear brake cable routing as well, and it was black rather than white.

Ultegra feels like it is just a little better machined and meshes together better. The shifting is a touch quicker and copes with abuse and changing under power with more grace. The brakes are different in feel, but having swapped pads I'd say that is the bulk of the difference there.

DKay

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Although, the differences you mention could just have easily been down to how well the cables were prepped and installed.

MisterMuncher

I did both bikes. If anything my own, the Ultegra bike, would be a worse job. The cobbler's children have no shoes and all that.

DKay

Haha.

mugensi

I recently bought 5800 groupset from Ribble and while it was on its way I started thinking would i always be regretting not paying the extra and getting 6800 so to avoid any future regrets I went ahead and bought 6800 also so I had both sitting there in front of me and decided to weigh everything and see what the actual weight difference is and it works out at 235g difference in the two. Was it enough to sway me to keep the 6800 and send back the 5800? No it wasn't but the colour of the 6800 was and so I sent back the 5800.

tincaman

My new 5800 is much better than the 6700 on my other bike, its feels like the 5700/6700 was an interim groupset after 5600/6600, it never worked as well as the older ones, but now its back and much slicker again

cerutticolumn

I've no experience of the 6800 groupset, but I have done about 1000kms on 5800. My impressions are that a) it's pretty ugly, b) the shifting, especially the front is very good although feels a bit plasticky, c) the brakes are good but not fantastic and in any case spoiled by terrible brake pads. I got a really good deal from Ribble, so I'm not complaing (much), just that after reading all the rave reviews it hasn't lived up to expectations. Will recable to see if it improves.