Strava with fake GPS

markhewitt1978

I've noticed some people recently (including Laurens ten Dam!) who are usually some virtual training system which is supposed to mimic real routes. Problem is people seem to be uploading them to Strava and claiming the KOMs along the way.

This one for example http://app.strava.com/activities/239494499 took a KOM on a local descent yesterday on a day I've no doubt that pass would be covered in ice anyway! He makes it clear in the description the ride is on a trainer but his name is still on the leaderboards.

cougie

Brilliant - so you could target a hairpin descent and do it on your turbo safe in the knowledge that you can't crash ?

I think more and more strava is only of use for you to gauge your own efforts and not comparing against others who may have done segments on a club ride or even a turbo now.

bsharp77

The new Bkool system does this. You virtually ride the course and can export as a FIT file at the end and upload to strava.
What they should do is tag the ride as a stationery trainer session in Strava, as this does away with the course route and just records the power etc. so that sectors are unaffected.

bsharp77

"stationary trainer" ....damn autocorrect!

bsharp77

Oh, and I think the one Tens Dam has been testing is Zwift - they have created their own "island" which appears on Strava - any records taken here are all virtual as the place does not exist!

markhewitt1978

bsharp77 wrote:

Oh, and I think the one Tens Dam has been testing is Zwift - they have created their own "island" which appears on Strava - any records taken here are all virtual as the place does not exist!

I think the place does exist, but it's in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific, and the roads don't exist either. So you could ride it for real - sort of.

There should be some automatic system to have these uploaded as trainer rides - the concept is a good one but let's not ruin Strava any more than it already is.

wongataa

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I've noticed some people recently (including Laurens ten Dam!) who are usually some virtual training system which is supposed to mimic real routes. Problem is people seem to be uploading them to Strava and claiming the KOMs along the way.

This one for example http://app.strava.com/activities/239494499 took a KOM on a local descent yesterday on a day I've no doubt that pass would be covered in ice anyway! He makes it clear in the description the ride is on a trainer but his name is still on the leaderboards.

You could flag the ride so the Strava staff could sort it out.

markhewitt1978

wongataa wrote:

You could flag the ride so the Strava staff could sort it out.

I have. But if everyone with one of these systems starts uploading there's no way you can flag them all.

BridlingtonBiker

There is a tick box on strava to let them know you're using a stationary trainer. It's there when you upload your ride

juanerasmoe

cougie wrote:

I think more and more strava is only of use for you to gauge your own efforts and not comparing against others who may have done segments on a club ride or even a turbo now.

Totally agree. Faking a ride with a dodgy gpx file is so easy that it doesn't make sense to compare your times with strangers.

jimmythecuckoo

Do people really still compare and go for KOMs?

There is a hill near us that groups went for with lead out trains and everything. The first guy over the top should hold the KOM for ever as it was such a well drilled attempt.

Now though there is no point trying to challenge it unless you ride with 8 people committed to help you!

I use it for me now and not as a benchmark against others.

dabber

Ah, but sometimes it pays to think it matters.... on a little climb near me I'm ahead of Kwiatkowski when he rode through it on last year's Tour of Britain. I don't tell anyone he was in the neutralised section at the time.
Ooops, I just did. :oops: :oops: :oops: :roll:

napoleond

The best way to compare yourself with others is with a number on your back. I use Strava to gauge my own improvements.
And yes I do upload from a virtual training system too.

bobmcstuff

I reckon Strava will probably do something to clamp down on it, it's clearly disillusioning some of their core users and they can't afford to do that.

NeXXus

bobmcstuff wrote:

I reckon Strava will probably do something to clamp down on it, it's clearly disillusioning some of their core users and they can't afford to do that.

Like what? The issue is file based, in that you can upload a GPX that originated from any source(whether edge 200, forerunner 310 or a wahoo kickr)

Remove one, you remove that ability for all.

Omar Little

NeXXus wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I reckon Strava will probably do something to clamp down on it, it's clearly disillusioning some of their core users and they can't afford to do that.

Like what? The issue is file based, in that you can upload a GPX that originated from any source(whether edge 200, forerunner 310 or a wahoo kickr)

Remove one, you remove that ability for all.

There is presumably some sort of ID system that generates the GPX though because on my rides it shows when i have uploaded from my garmin edge or my forerunner

StillGoing

markhewitt1978 wrote:

wongataa wrote:

You could flag the ride so the Strava staff could sort it out.

I have. But if everyone with one of these systems starts uploading there's no way you can flag them all.

Strava is slow to acknowledge the virtual trainer sometimes even when you have checked the stationary trainer box. I know it took days for it to acknowledge a virtual ride I did up Honister Pass was on a stationary trainer where I ended up with a descent time that would have made Nibali proud. But as for some getting through without being flagged; surely anyone with a genuine KOM for the section would flag it so it isn't reliant on somebody policing KOMs they have no connection with.

bobmcstuff

Omar Little wrote:

NeXXus wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I reckon Strava will probably do something to clamp down on it, it's clearly disillusioning some of their core users and they can't afford to do that.

Like what? The issue is file based, in that you can upload a GPX that originated from any source(whether edge 200, forerunner 310 or a wahoo kickr)

Remove one, you remove that ability for all.

There is presumably some sort of ID system that generates the GPX though because on my rides it shows when i have uploaded from my garmin edge or my forerunner

I am not an expert on how GPX files are created - but the ones I've seen that are obviously from turbos are very distinctive because they show an unnaturally constant power and cadence when compared to a real-world ride.

Also as mentioned there is some sort of ID for where the ride came from, Strava knows whether mine came from my phone or my Garmin, presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to tag ones from the Kickr as turbo rides and discount them from the league tables.

Anyway, as I said I'm not an expert and I don't know exactly how they could fix it, and if someone really wants to screw the system they'll find a way to do so (or just drive a car round the segment...), I'm just saying that I think Strava will want to avoid annoying their core users like this.

mattoj

I flagged this ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/282120294/analysis

but I'm guessing the rider has OK'd it. The speed profile looks really suspicious - almost constant throughout despite the presence of barriers, cycling through the centre of town, sharp bends on the narrow cycle path and crossing a dual carriageway. And it's the middle of the day. Is this a "virtual ride" that's been uploaded?

t4tomo

markhewitt1978 wrote:

bsharp77 wrote:

Oh, and I think the one Tens Dam has been testing is Zwift - they have created their own "island" which appears on Strava - any records taken here are all virtual as the place does not exist!

I think the place does exist, but it's in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific, and the roads don't exist either. So you could ride it for real - sort of.

There should be some automatic system to have these uploaded as trainer rides - the concept is a good one but let's not ruin Strava any more than it already is.

It's already ruined beyond belief for comparison to others. Use it to log your rides, compare yourself to yourself but let's not pretend the majority of the KOMs are valid solo times done on bike.

sloppyschleckonds

mattoj wrote:

I flagged this ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/282120294/analysis

but I'm guessing the rider has OK'd it. The speed profile looks really suspicious - almost constant throughout despite the presence of barriers, cycling through the centre of town, sharp bends on the narrow cycle path and crossing a dual carriageway. And it's the middle of the day. Is this a "virtual ride" that's been uploaded?

Average speed seems low compared to power output.

ugo.santalucia

Immoral... I bet you could sue them... there must be a law, of if there isn't, then there should be... maybe if UKIP goes into power?

NeXXus

mattoj wrote:

I flagged this ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/282120294/analysis

but I'm guessing the rider has OK'd it. The speed profile looks really suspicious - almost constant throughout despite the presence of barriers, cycling through the centre of town, sharp bends on the narrow cycle path and crossing a dual carriageway. And it's the middle of the day. Is this a "virtual ride" that's been uploaded?

That's a turbo ride, also note absence of the time the ride started.

bernithebiker

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

Do people really still compare and go for KOMs?

There is a hill near us that groups went for with lead out trains and everything. The first guy over the top should hold the KOM for ever as it was such a well drilled attempt.

Now though there is no point trying to challenge it unless you ride with 8 people committed to help you!

I use it for me now and not as a benchmark against others.

In my experience a good strong tail wind will outdo a group of 8+ riders. But then it does tend to boil down to who has been able to get out in a good wind......

sloppyschleckonds

NeXXus wrote:

mattoj wrote:

I flagged this ride:

https://www.strava.com/activities/282120294/analysis

but I'm guessing the rider has OK'd it. The speed profile looks really suspicious - almost constant throughout despite the presence of barriers, cycling through the centre of town, sharp bends on the narrow cycle path and crossing a dual carriageway. And it's the middle of the day. Is this a "virtual ride" that's been uploaded?

That's a turbo ride, also note absence of the time the ride started.

Isn't the ride time a Strava feature removed?

nweststeyn

"It doesn't matter".