A more 'sportive' geometry

minusnothing

What differences are there when a manufacturer talks about a 'comfortable' or 'sportive' geometry as opposed to a 'race' geometry?

The measurents of which part are they refering to?

dj58

Top tube and head tube length are adjusted to give a more upright riding position, also known as endurance geometry, bike usually has a longer wheelbase.

http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/117 ... road-bikes

Millidog

The head tube will usually be longer on a "Sportive" bike. There may be other dimensional issues i.e. Top tube length, head tube angles etc. and wheelbase. If you compare say a Specialized Roubaix with a Tarmac, the differences are apparent. However some manufacturers air on a comfortable riding position anyway, Trek for instance have little difference between Domane and Madone / Imonda in their H2 geometry. In conclusion the longer head tube will give a more upright riding position and is therefore "More comfortable".

passout

All true but you can often get a smilar effect by messing with the stem on a non 'sportive' bike - just flipping it in the 1st instance. The differences vary a great deal between bikes so I'd treat these terms as an marketing exercise, ignore it and just get a bike that suits your needs - go by the geometry and numbers.

ollie51

The key difference are in stack and reach, and headtube + top tube length. If we compare an Emonda and a Domane the headtube and top tube lengths are very similar, but they actually result in noticeably different positions due to the differences in stack and reach. Headtube and toptube lengths are very easy to understand and compare, but stack and reach can skew this. There can be differences in wheelbase, chainstay length and BB height too, to give different handling characteristics.

A classic race bike in a 54cm would typically have about a 54.5-55.0cm top-tube, 14cm head-tube, 53cm stack and 39.5-40cm reach.

A typical sportive bike in a 54cm would typically have about a 54.0-54.5cm top-tube, 16cm head-tube, 57-8cm stack and 37-48cm reach.

So to summarise a sportive bike has: less reach, more stack, shorter top tube, longer head tube.

Trek's H2 on the madone/emonda sits somewhere in between, with stack and reach closer to that of a typical race bike, but top tube and head tube closer to that of a sportive bike. The Emonda is the less aggressive of the two.

holiver

Good post.

minusnothing

ollie51 wrote:

The key difference are in stack and reach, and headtube + top tube length. If we compare an Emonda and a Domane the headtube and top tube lengths are very similar, but they actually result in noticeably different positions due to the differences in stack and reach. Headtube and toptube lengths are very easy to understand and compare, but stack and reach can skew this. There can be differences in wheelbase, chainstay length and BB height too, to give different handling characteristics.

A classic race bike in a 54cm would typically have about a 54.5-55.0cm top-tube, 14cm head-tube, 53cm stack and 39.5-40cm reach.

A typical sportive bike in a 54cm would typically have about a 54.0-54.5cm top-tube, 16cm head-tube, 57-8cm stack and 37-48cm reach.

So to summarise a sportive bike has: less reach, more stack, shorter top tube, longer head tube.

Trek's H2 on the madone/emonda sits somewhere in between, with stack and reach closer to that of a typical race bike, but top tube and head tube closer to that of a sportive bike. The Emonda is the less aggressive of the two.

Excellent post. I'm beginning to understand all this now.

The reason I asked in the first place is I'm getting a new bike and looking at two models:
Dolan l'Étape and Ribble Sportive Racing.

The Dolan has a very long ('racy'?) Top Tube (53) for it's relative Seat-tube (44). Unfortunately they don't state the reach and stack and wouldn't tell me over the phone when I called. HT 12.5 (seems a bit 'sportive').

The Ribble seems more 'sportive' overall 51.3 TT for 47 C-T. HT 12.8
I'm 5ft 4.5inch.

I'm not set on either bike but would like something 'racy' or something I can make 'racy'.

Scuse the marketing clichés but in general terms is it easier to get a more 'racy' bike and make it 'sportive' or vice versa?

Another Q - if between sizes - is it better to have a bike slightly big or slightly small?

holiver

In regard to your final question, slightly small is best as it is easy to fit a longer stem and move it and the saddle up etc.

ianbar

personally id get a bike fit and work from there. i have still not had one but i intend to even if no getting a new bike. i seem to pretty constantly be messing with my set up to get it exact. best way get a fit done and sorted!

careful

In regard to your final question, slightly small is best as it is easy to fit a longer stem and move it and the saddle up etc.

Generally true, but if like me, you need an upright position, on a smallish frame you can reach the limit of bar height i.e max steerer spacers and flipped stem well within the seat post range. The problem I have is that the top tube length on a larger frame is often too long, especially on more race type frames. The smaller frame overcomes this, but has a shorter head tube, giving the problem above.
A very short stem on a larger frame seems the best compromise for me, but it does result in somewhat twitchy handling. I also have to select short reach/compact bars. I have rather long legs in proportion to upper body length, I am ancient and have chronic back problems. The upshot of all this is that generalisations do not suit all, and either learning by experience or a good bike fit may be necessary.

ollie51

I would disregard seat tube length when it comes to bike sizing, it's so adjustable that it's irrelevant to all but those with ridiculously short/long legs and even then the problem can be over come. Only issue you tend to get is someone who has obscenely long legs on a bike with a proprietary seat post.

The Dolan L'etape is pretty neutral in terms of geometry, its 44cm is pretty similar to a 'small' 52cm, (you'd expect a 52cm or a Small to have a c. 53.5-54cm Effective TT and a 11-12cm headtube for a 'race bike') so with a 53cm TT + 12.5cm headtube it's neither classic race nor sportive - it's somewhere in the middle. Though the fact that they don't have stack and reach makes it hard to be absolutely certain and suggests to me this is an open mould Chinese frame that they had no or little hand in designing. The Ribble falls into the race bike category.

I personally disagree with this idea of if in doubt go small. If in doubt spending more and going to a good bike shop with knowledgeable staff, or better still have a bike fit before buying is the way forward. I've seen a lot of fantastic bikes ruined for their riders because they bought a bike in the wrong size online, or because they bought a bike with no correct size for the rider. I'd also argue in a lot of cases there's a good argument for sizing up if in doubt, but we'll save that for another day

As a very rough guide, if you can't comfortably touch your toes with straight legs, don't even think about a race bike.

Have you considered a Canyon, by far the best of the mail order brands if you ask me?