Litespeed Niota Al - lightweight (10.08Kg) FS u/dates p2/3

The Rookie

Time to rebuild my trusty Carrera Kraken into an FS frame

The Al was made in Taiwan, rear dropouts are very Merida esq (like to think I'm staying with Merida!), not sure of the year, but it has the later 31.6mm seat tube and cast section at the front of the swing arm suggesting it's late, but I can't find catalogue photo's after 2006.
The stock float RL with propedal has gone and been replaced with an Enduro Float R

which is the version with the 'itch switch' which halves travel and ups the spring rate, it comes with no propedal, so not ideal for the Niota with it's short travel and single pivot. So a better shock was needed.

The Fifth Element were well received although early life failures were rife and lead to Progressive dropping their MTB product range, light to at about 60g lighter than the Enduro. It also has an adjustable pedal platform which is useful on a bike which has a longer shock (200mm) than is usual for a short travel bike where the pedal platform may not match shock shaft speed as well.

The Niota was very much if it's time with quite steep angles and a quite high BB (almost the same as the same era Marin Mount Vision), the fifth element is 190mm and drops the BB to about the same height as the Anthem or SC Superlight and slackens the angles to about the same, using the 4" travel position it will still not go to as much bump as it would in the 5" location.

So this will be the last photo of this bike


The bare frame with no shock comes in at 2128g (I've seen reasonable hardtails weighing more than that!) with the shock in place with top hats it will be sub 2.4Kg (the spherical bearings in the shock will be replaced by lighter, same size as Fox, DU bushes) so I hope to get the bike built up at sub 10.4 and maybe pushing 10.3Kg.

dirkpitt74

Good luck with the build!
Will follow this with interest.

njee20

So how long before it's sub-10kg?!

The Rookie

Haha, not sure Nick, will take a while as the cost per gram is getting a bit high now, will build it up and then look at options.

Probably start taking the Carrera apart after Christmas now, have a DU bush tool and bushes on way and also a seatpost shim to use my Carbon 27.2 (USE thermoplastic).

step83

The kraken is dead, long live the Nitoa!

Roughly how much did that frame set you back? Looks pretty tidy. Ill be watching with interest as well

CitizenLee

Looks decent Rookie!

Here's hoping for a trouble free build!

dirkpitt74

Having done a bit of googling I understand the rear set up a bit more now.

The Rookie

Frame didn't cost too much at all, in fact a quick search on EBay will tell you it was £110 delivered, it has had a light blow over re spray to tidy it up, but it all looks OK at close range.

Lightweight headset installed (82g for upper and lower, cones and top cap, already have a MT Zoom compression cap.

The Rookie

Just some background, here is how the linkage driven shock works, not convinced by the claimed upwards only axle path though!

And here is what the Niota looked like in the 2004 Catalog(ue)


The frame only option back in the day was a rather pricey $1500, given the fact it was made in Taiwan.

Chunkers1980

Does it mean the TT is short given the layback post spec'ed?

The Rookie

ETT is 57.5cm for this the 'small/medium' frame (yes between the small and the medium they have the SM - or is that S&M) - my small Carrera is 56cm.

The Thomson is only laid back by the same amount as many bikes have the the mounting offset, the supposed advantage of the Thomson design is the saddle is still mounted centrally over the top of the post. I usually use an offset post and prefer the slightly shorter bike as it gives a better compromise (for me) between the very slightly stretched out sitting pedalling position while keeping the front centre that 20mm shorter to make it a little livelier when out the saddle. Front centre is 63.6cm (Carrera 62cm), the Carrera was half a size to short for me so this should be spot on.

rockmonkeysc

It's not a looker is it? I like ugly bikes!
That axle path isn't straight (it can't be on a single pivot) but I think at full compression the axle is directly above it's start point.

The Rookie

Hmm not as ugly as a Marin Mount Vision (the first quad link) which was the another serious consideration, but that's a bit crack prone and nowhere near as light.

Indeed, it's clearly an arc, but yes with that pivot point and the starting BB height the finish position would be pretty much above the start, won't be quite like that on mine as the shorter shock moves the start point up, but it does avoid the pedal kick back the Santa Cruz offerings suffer from (the other frame on the list).

rockmonkeysc

I didn't find pedal kick back an issue on the Santa Cruz Superlight, cracking is a problem on them though! That's why I bought an Anthem instead.

The Rookie

Cracking seems a problem on a lit of the 'racier' FS frames, but reviews suggest the Superlight was less prone than the marin, despite the Marin weighing more.

Hit a minor issue with the shock bushings, so the Float will have to stay on a bit linger while I get some adaptors sorted to mount the 5th element.

rockmonkeysc

Why swap the Float for a 5th Element? It's a bit of an old shock and not a great one.

The Rookie

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Why swap the Float for a 5th Element? It's a bit of an old shock and not a great one.

A few reasons, firstly I want to lower it at the rear for a more modern ride feel and the 5th element is sized just right, secondly the Float (this version) has no propedal which is quite important on this frame, thirdly it's older (2004 v 2007) than the 5th element and lastly the 5th element got great reviews for the way it rode, it's just it was very prone to early life failures, as this doesn't leak oil and holds air it looks like it's a good one!

I got some new bushes for it as the supplier stated it took Fox sized bushes, but it doesn't, so I'm getting some tube to make up my own mounts using the current bearings.

njee20

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Why swap the Float for a 5th Element? It's a bit of an old shock and not a great one.

Id have a 5th Element over a Float of that vintage. They were shit IMO.

The Rookie

Finally got some time to start in this yesterday.....

The bike awaiting it's 'heart' (frame) transplant and the donor organ ready for transplanting.

Forks and wheels make a quick hit

Then a few extra bits

And the redundant frame looking sorry for itself

However it will live to fight another day, as the daughters latest squeeze is being dragged kicking and screaming into enjoying MTBing (she's already taken him to FOD and he hired a Cube for the day rather than taking his (shhhh) Apollo) so it's going to be rebuilt for him using the assorted parts laying around, some highish end parts and some OK parts, just need some semi decent forks for it and it will be ready in no time!

I'm going to be rebuilding the brakes to replace the Saint (M800) parts with XT (M765) just to make it look more cohesive and the Saint lever and Calliper will be reunited working together again and on the Carrera for the daughter's BF.

I've hit a few glitches of course, the inner chain guide ring fouls the frame, may try swapping a BB spacer from NDS to DS in the short term (only) or using an old front mech, but Narrow Wide beckons I think and then the CF guide ring will be recut into being an outer bash, save a few grams and also reduce it's propensity to trap a bit to much crud (never caused an issue, just doesn't look nice!), I'll also have to use a fixed seatpost clamp for now as all the QR I have laying around are either 31.8 or 36 (frame is 34.9).

rockmonkeysc

Are you going to use yellow cables? They looked so good on your Carrera!

The Rookie

Yup, the yellow cable outers and brake hoses will stay, a bit frivolous but I do like the way they make a feature of themselves.

The inner chain guide can't be made to fit so an old front mech will do service as a chain guide until I get an NW ring when I'll recut the CF to mate to the outer bolt holes as a lightweight bash, will also put more pressure in replacing the long cage mech with a more suitable short cage.

njee20

Why have a bash at all? Easy weight saving...

The Rookie

Lots of logs on my regular local rides just big enough to clip the chainring when you go over them, better safe than sorry, current bash is just 68g, the CF will make one at about 35g so not a huge saving.

The Rookie

Up and ready to ride, had to use a shonky old front mech as a chainguide for now, also the front calliper has a sticky piston so will be sorting that tomorrow. Sorry RM but had to use some black SP41 outers for the gears as I only had one section of yellow long enough, the other bits I had were just too short for the mid (front to rear triangle) and rear (frame to mech) sections.
Will declare a weight when I've sorted the chain guide situation and also tubeless end the tyres.

rockmonkeysc

Get the yellow cables sorted, so many people will find them offensive :-)

The Rookie

Haha, you could be right!

Full spec without weights

Frame
Litespeed Niota Al Frame
With Enduro Float R 'itch switch' shock
Frame blanking bolts (Nylon)

Crankset
XT HT2 BB
Ally Gamut bash ring
Deore XT HT2 cranks
32T E13 single specific ring
M770 XT SPD pedals
Deore Chain
Acera front mech as chain guide

Gears
Rear cable Jagwire (SP41 for one section)
M960 Deore XTR long cage rear mech with alloy jockeys

Brakes
Shimano ST-M765 XT lever/M765 XTcalliper front
Shimano M765 XT lever/M965 XTR calliper rear
160mm A2Z Teppen Yaki spade floating front disc
Alligator rear disc
Bolts

Seating
Chinese Carbon seatpost
Bontrager Inform RXL

Steering
Marin/headset bearing
Manitou Skareb Elite forks (Converted to 105mm, Min oil fill, SPV cap replaced with plain valve cap, with SFN)
MT Zoom combi cap and bolt
Superstar 80mm stem with bikehut face plate
Syncros UD Carbon
KCNC foam grips
Bar end caps
Carbon Headset spacers

Wheels
A2Z hub, Sapim race spokes, alloy nipples and ZTR Alpine rim
Continental tube
Rocket Ron 2.25 Folding
Shimano XT QR skewer
Novatec 772 hub, Sapim race spokes, alloy nipples and ZTR Alpine rim
Shimano M760 Cassette
Continental tube
Rocket Ron 2.25 Folding
Shimano XT QR skewer

njee20

Looks good! I've got some Mt Zoom skewers If you want to drop a bit more. Still reckon get rid of the bash. FS will almost certainly have a higher BB than the

Thought about Egg Beater pedals? 2s with ti axles are quite light and not hugely expensive.

The Rookie

Thanks for the offer, but I do like the security of the Shimano skewers even though the MT Zoom are a lot lighter! Besides pennies going on sorting the last few things first.

Have considered egg beaters, but you hear a lot of tales of woe, and it would mean changing both bikes at once!

peter413

I like that, reminds me a little bit of my old Stumpjumper which originally got me into riding properly.

I'm sure there's a reason but why no tubeless? Lightweight alloy valves from Superstar are cheap and it should save you a little weight. I think I saved about 100g a wheel going tubeless from my standard Continental tubes but I'd be surprised if you're using the normal ones.

I'm with njee as well, I'd ditch the bash guard. I've been surprised how hard rings can get hit and not have any problems. I know a few running them on their AM bikes and they regularly grind over rocks and logs without any issues. I still like a bash on mine but on a bike like this I'd ditch it.

Halo Hex Key skewers are a cheap option to drop a little weight. They're just as secure as Shimano skewers IME and it really isn't any harder to use a hex key instead of the QR when you know you've got to use it. Ok for racing I can see they could be bothersome where every second counts but for normal riding they're fine. For changing a puncture you've still got to get a tube from your bag so getting the multi tool out doesn't take any extra effort and you can just keep a spare one in the car if you need to take the wheels off there.

The Rookie

Not tubeless yet as I got the kit as a Christmas present and wanted to build the bike first.

I run Halo bolted skewers on two of my bikes, but it's a pain for taking the wheels off to put it in the car for my regular club rides.

I'll think about the bash for sure.

dirkpitt74

Looking good.
Which tubeless kit have you gone for?